I’m curious about who still practices their faith.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by cirdellin, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Even in this one thread I have both attacked the tenets of present Islam and Christianity. I will be remembered as the attackers of certain faith. I have been accused by the west as not respecting the diversity of both orthodoxies. In the Islamic world, I am an infidel worthy of death. I take pride in this. Christianity is being replaced with a very sloppy and empirically questionable version of political correctness that is the greatest threat to western thought perhaps ever!
    Islam will never accept even the notion of it being incorrect and will casually murder any one who makes such a claim.
    People will kill to secure their claim to sole ownership of transcendental truth.
    Of Christianity and Islam which will be the larger influence in the future world, in your opinion?
     
  2. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Yes but he chose not to give an apology as it would undermine his own narcissism.
    The Romans killed him so justice was done.
     
  3. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    The process was under the control of the Catholic Church in Nicea!
    A political group dedicated to please the authorities of the time and nothing to do with any spiritual guidance.
     
  4. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I won't bother with passages from the Koran, because I am not familiar with the Koran itself. I don't have the contextual knowledge to cite it properly. Any condemnation I have for Muslims comes from their actions and their generalized claims of what the Koran says.

    With that said, assuming that you bother to actually read this far, I am not attacking any Christian theology, but the various justifications that various individuals and groups use that theology to excuse their actions. I'm not sure where you are thinking that I support any type of Muslim theology or call for tolerance of Islamic theology on the basis of diversity? As far as I can tell, and especially since you can't quite my making such claims, when directly asked to show such proof of my supposed position, you are making that position of mine up out of whole cloth. Personally, while I am happy to be tolerant of moderate Muslims, I by no means want any tolerance of the extremist fundamentalist mid eastern sects that would seek to force themselves on others, anymore than I will not tolerate anyone trying to impose Christian values onto non-Christians by force of law.

    If you don't like the use of biblical verses from OT books, then tell those Christians who use them to justify their persecution of others.
     
  5. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Well, and that is our divide. I believe the Bible was controlled, directed by God for us and thus is truth and good and timeless. If you see it as a product of man's corruption then we will have different views.. .
     
  6. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    I don’t know what to say. Political considerations seem to have chosen which books ended up in the Bible. People made the choices. People made Mary Magdalene a prostitute when there is no reason to believe that. People made Jesus unmarried which seems quite unlikely. Stuff like that.
     
  7. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I have long made the argument that Jesus could have been married with children and still been the perfect sinless sacrifice.
     
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  8. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Great point!
     
  9. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, I know your position. Have an ex son in law that said he quit taking communion because those in the church that took it were not worthy. He left his family because taking methamphetamines was more important to him. It's all about "GRACE"/ When I see how much God has forgiven me, I am more willing to overlook the faults of others. We've all had hurts stemming from our Church relationships. Some Churches, actually a lot of them, can be off balanced because they don't adhere well to the Word of God. As part of the Body of Christ, we are to find a place in them and effect change. I think that might be a challenge for you. I hope it would be. You have a lot to offer!
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  10. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We do have Christian laws and values and they do have a positive affect on society because of their tolerance and compassion, but Christianity is an individual thing. Christian morals and ethics, can't be imposed on people, or it would take away one's free will. Even baptism doesn't mean a person is a Christian. Baptism is merely an illumination towards Christianity.

    To really be a Christian one has to acquire the Holy Spirit within themselves - and that comes by accepting oneself as a sinner in need of repentance. A true Christian has to step out of themselves, and rise above their pride and self absorption so they can achieve a more Godly and pure potential.


    In contrast, to become a Muslim all one needs to do is state that they are Muslim - then their choice is established. They can't deviate from the rules or deny Islam after that, or it's off with the head. Since Islam includes this world's values such as conquests and territorial gain as part of its faith, means that it caters more to one's prideful and egotistical nature. That makes it the antithesis of Christianity.
     
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  11. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Islam correctly sees itself under threat as it’s nations see themselves so far behind the rest of the world that they feel humiliated.

    They can try to catch up or they can double down on medieval values. They have chosen the latter.

    But as these populations increase their consumer power the clerics will be casually thrown aside just as Christian values were replaced in the west as they became more affluent

    It is just a matter if time before Islam falls as well although it will be bloody.
     
  12. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not really! I know glorified Saints that experience God while still alive, and to reach that high level of spirituality a person has to step out of their 'carnal' and physical self completely. So how can Christ who is the Son of God Incarnate, be lesser in purity than Saints?

    The monks on Mount Athos live on very little sustenance. They eat once a day, never meat or poultry and fish only on holidays. They pray and sing hymns 7 hours standing, rarely sleep and are given the most amazing charisms by God - depending of course on the degree of purity within them.
     
  13. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    If I could see better I am sure that I would see where you directly quoted Young but when I read your comment it seemed to be your summary expressed in your words without any direct quotes from Young.
     
  14. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Quoted directly from Young with citation for date and documentation. Please reread.
     
  15. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    We are referring to the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew chapters 5-7. As you will notice, Yeshua summed it up in Matthew 7:24-27 = https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew7:24-27&version=CEV;ERV;TLB;NKJV;KJV

    What did Yeshua teach in Matthew 5:29-30? https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew5:29-30&version=CEV;ERV;TLB;NKJV;KJV
     
  16. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I was responding to Post #114 by another poster. I was saying that it was him who put the spin on it and you must have thought that I was writing to you. It is easy to get mixed up long after the initial comments have been made.
     
  17. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is readily understandable to those that will receive it. Very good.
     
  18. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Islam had it’s beginnings and continues to exist on a military model. Even the crescent describes it’s present military territory. What other religion does this??
     
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  19. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In heaven, Jesus explained, we will not be given to marriage. Apparently, all of our relationships will be of a higher order. Marriage is only a model of that order. Jesus adhered to that higher order and that is what we should look forward to. Marriage is a Holy order for our earthly existence. The purpose for which Jesus came to earth transcended that.
     
  20. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Tori Amos the singer has noted that Jesus has been applauded for never having been polluted by having sex with a woman but if so doesn’t that denigrate women as unclean things. Truth is that Jesus would have been expected to be married to be called Rabbi as he was and at the wedding where he performed his first miracle he would have been expected to be responsible for the feeding of his guests as his mother insisted.
     
  21. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    The qualification for being the sacrifice was sinless. Straight up. There was nothing sinful about being married or having children within that marriage. Whenever did purity (which is a highly subjective value to begin with) ever enter into the equation?
     
  22. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Note that my argument is not that Jesus did get married here on earth, only that he could have been married and even have had children and still would have been sinless.
     
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  23. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nothing in the New Testament denigrates women. Catholics invent all kinds of ideas. Where do you come off saying Rabbi's/Teachers, had to be married?? Jesus honored marraige "husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church"- "wives respect your husbands"- "husbands live with your wives in an understanding way". Jesus chose not to be married as that was the will of God.
     
  24. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Note taken. Had that been the will of God, He would have Married I'm sure. I think your position is having relations with a women and fathering children is not a sin. I am in agreement.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  25. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Rabbis were required to be married under Jewish law during Roman times. Jesus was probably married to Mary Magdalene which should be honored as he was also fully human and chose a worthy human woman.
     

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