...and now the Bread

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by FlamingLib, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    We've had the circus for the last 4 years. Now the bread: $400 a week, by executive order. And if you vote for Trump, it will continue. Who gets to be the lucky plaintiff who challenges totally unconstitutional free money? That won't be very popular to the 20 million or so hurting people who desperately need it. The Democrats will do the adulting and challenge it and win, but it will be a political loser for them.

    Nice republic we had there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm also opposed to the free money. What do you suggest instead?
     
  3. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, we're in a tough spot. I know some Trump supporters I work with who own rental properties and they are not happy. I know people who are laid off and hanging on by their finger nails because of that extra $600 a week. $400 is better than nothing.

    If the Republicans don't oppose this, though, I don't know what to say. This is ruinous for the Republic (some commenter said that at Redstate- it's a good summation of the situation: popular, but ruinous).
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  4. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    I'm not sure how this will play out but Trump signing the executive orders today gets him the credit. If the democrats try to block it they will be seen as starving the American people. They'll either argue it's not enough or shout RUSSIA!
     
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  5. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    How do you not challenge this? Do we have a Constitution we follow anymore or not? Because the power of the purse is clearly NOT with the executive. Trump could shuffle around some money for a chunk of his wall and get away with it (and allowing him to get away with it, Republicans, is why we're in this mess), but they're trying to "repurpose" over $100 billion. I guarantee you that if that is allowed to happen, the next president will "repurpose" money too.

    I don't get how you 2nd amendments types aren't taking to the streets over this. If Obama had done this (and I can actually see him doing something like what Trump did), you guys would be out for blood. And don't try and tell me otherwise. This is so ******* unconstitutional.

    And where's MY free money? You'll start to hear that a lot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its either free money or open everything. I of course prefer the latter. A program to aid those diagnosed to be 'at risk' and a nationwide mandate to offer 'at risk' hours for essential services (grocery, medical, public transit) would be adequate protection for those who need to be isolated to do so. Cvirus is a slightly elevated but still minimal risk to everyone else, not a justification to tank the economy and shred the constitution.

    Seems to me that Trump2020 is more the reason the economy is being tanked and the constitution shredded than the Cvirus. And the worst part is, Trump could prevent it if he really tried.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  7. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    First of all calm down. Second please show me where I said I agreed or supported it. Thirdly the government should support those out of work now because the government is the reason they are unemployed.
     
  8. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The initiator of violence is always wrong. We can't 'take to the streets' until its a demonstrably defensive action
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  9. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    You can't protest peacefully? Sure you can. The Tea Party did. Do you think there will be conservatives protesting out in public over this? I don't. So if the Republicans go along with this, what do you guys even stand for anymore?
     
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  10. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    This line of thought completely falls apart when you look at the rest of the world. With a few exceptions, the entire first world (and a lot of developing countries) went on lockdown. This wasn't some conspiracy to tank the economy to get Trump. Italy's healthcare system was collapsing and if Italy's can collapse...and we had the lockdowns. And because Americans, somehow, can't do what all the other countries have done to bring this to heel (mask wearing and distancing), we can't have nice things, like reopened schools.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would protest. But I still have a job.
     
  12. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    That will be most people's attitudes: apathy. Like I said, nice Republic we had there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  13. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't see any reason to expect realistic Cvirus numbers from the establishment that brought us 'Russia Collusion' and 'Peaceful Riots'. Surely you've seen the threads on this very forum where people justify counting terminal cancer patients and motorcycle accidents as 'Covid deaths'?

    Do you personally know any otherwise healthy people that died from Covid? I don't. I actually only know one person who tested positive for it, and I personally know of one other.

    Then there's this:
    "The federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life.

    Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite.

    "There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU [intensive care unit] and then have a heart or kidney problem," she said during a Tuesday news briefing at the White House. "Some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.

    "The intent is ... if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that," she added."

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bi...avirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause

    So, OF COURSE we're going to have more 'Covid deaths' than anyone else. We'll just have less of all other deaths. And we're going to have more confirmed cases than anyone else because we're testing more than anyone else.

    Why, if you had to guess, are we counting Covid deaths in a way that maximizes them while most other nations are counting them in a way that minimizes them? Is it not reasonable to suspect, given that they keep using our 'lack of progress' relative to those other nations as a reason to crack down/shut down more, that perhaps there's an ulterior agenda at work?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you protesting?
     
  15. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    Why would we expect truthful numbers when the entire government response has been schizophrenic or contradictory at best?
     
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  16. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Nope. I've seen the handwriting on the wall. We're screwed.
     
  17. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Again, all this falls apart when you look at the rest of the world. Is the UK inflating death counts? They've lost more people than we have, on a per-capita basis. Is Italy? Same with them. Spain? Again, more deaths per capita than us. Same with Sweden. Same with Belgium. Is France inflating their death count? China? Japan? India? Mexico? Brazil? They're all inflating death counts? No, they're not and I know you don't believe that.

    Your conspiracy theories make absolutely no sense.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  18. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Most of the presently lost jobs are NOT COMING BACK. Just look at how many major retailers have permanently closed up shop and gone out of business, same is true of many small cafeterias and restaurants. These businesses are gone forever, as are the jobs they generated.
     
  19. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think they're inflating their death counts. I think they're counting their deaths differently than we do. Aside from the quotes from the WH that I already provided, theres these:

    "France only records Covid-19 fatalities in hospitals, Spain does not include unconfirmed cases in senior homes, and the Netherlands only tests hospitalized patients"

    ...

    "But epidemiology experts warn that governments are not tracking coronavirus deaths properly. In Spain, for instance, deaths of untested people in private homes and senior residences are not being included, say regional officials.

    And then there is the added problem of determining the true number of coronavirus infections. When very few people get tested, as is the case in Spain due to a shortage of testing kits, the percentage of deaths over total infections comes out higher, leading to elevated fatality rates."

    https://english.elpais.com/society/...es-each-country-count-deaths-differently.html

    this slightly newer, seems to indicate that 'most' of the cases arent being counted. I would add- except in the US.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/52311014

    What this means is that its likely that our comparison of our progress in combatting Covid is far better than it appears compared to other nations because many of those other nations aren't reporting a lot of their deaths as a result of their differing testing and recording protocols.
     
  20. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think trump has the right to do this. It’s wrong.
     
  21. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    I agree but something has to be done and congress has dropped the ball and it's the federal government that caused this mess. Shutting down the entire economy was the dumbest thing since cash for clunkers.
     
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  22. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I think there are plenty of things Trump could have done to annoy congressmen without violating the constitution - stop/delay congressional payroll, disallow congressmen from flying charter, government, private flight by issuing ban on those aircraft taking off, strip them of personal protection, etc.
    Unilaterally disbursing funds without congressional approval is a big no no in my book. I’m still going to vote for him though, because I can’t stomach the idea of Biden running this country.
    So, that’s how I feel about this whole thing.
     
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  23. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    Sure but that takes time and while that is happening people are still suffering. I am not a fan of executive orders to begin with but congress is hopelessly broken. My only hope is the democrats will see they are in a no win situation politically and agree to something that doesn't resemble a socialist wish list.
     
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    And DACA as done by Obama should have been found unconstitutional as well and for exactly the same reason. Buy the the Dems could have had that same 400 bucks a week constitutionally in the third week of July.
     
  25. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pretty much ditto.
     

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