Comparisons to Spanish flu. Seriously??

Let's not forget that we have only endured this horror for 5 months

It's already deadlier than the first year of the Spanish Flu

It wasn't that long ago when Covid deniers were trying to compare this thing to yearly flu deaths...until THAT moronic comparison was blown out of the water and then some

 

Where did I ever say anything of the sort? Please don't put your crap-tasting words in my mouth.

Everything I posted was as a comparison to the Spanish Flu, and that was something the left fawned over when an anti-Trump "expert" did it, so I don't even want to hear the drama when I do it.

Take one look at the Spanish Flu, and then count your blessings. That's my point, and I'm not interested in any other spin you want to put on it.

 

The Spanish flu sometimes killed in less than 24 hours and across all demographics.

For those who think Trump has handled c-19 badly I suggest you read this article.

A case can be made that Woodrow Wilson may have caused the rapid spread all over the world by his own arrogance and warmongering. A war the US had no interest in in the first place.

If there is a Hell I hope Wilson is writhing in agony as he was quite literally a mass murderer!

https://meaww.com/the-great-america...ilitate-the-outbreak-of-the-spanish-infleunza

 

The Chinese Flu is what? About four times worse than the seasonal flu? If even that?

Well the Spanish Flu was about a factor of a thousand worse than the Chinese Flu, so THAT is the ridiculous comparison, and yet the left fawned over that comparison when it was used against the bad Orange Man.

Where were you when THAT ridiculous comparison was being made?

 

That's pretty friggin bad pal

And when you have to (lamely) compare to the worst medical disaster in 100 years...yea...you're flailing

 

you sure, cause sound like you saying its covid (weak virus) vs spanish flu (powerful virus) as you said. Spanish flu kill more over 100 years ago due to lack of advance med ,hygeine, no understand of virus etc. take black death for example, it still occur till this day, yet it never spread like in the middle age nor kill the patients. this is thanks to modern advancement etc. Spanish flu is similar to H1N1, which we had plenty of these over the years, yet none was deadly and infectious as COVID.

 

The Chinese Flu isn't a medical disaster. The disaster associated with it is far more a political matter.

And the scope of my understanding of "medical disasters" stretches far beyond the narrow 100 year sliver of time you're thinking seems limited to for whatever reason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

About a million people die every year of malaria in just Africa alone, most of them children.

Perspective.

 

HUH?

That's kind of a big deal dude.

And guess what? Covid doesn't mean that all those other deaths aren't ALSO happening

 

Friend, you're wasting your time here, it's an election year, thus POLITICS UBER ALLES!!!

 

Yes perspective

Look at these figures.

7,251,259
People who died of hunger this year

8,416,872
Communicable disease deaths this year

4,928,251
Deaths of children under 5 this year

1,089,942
Deaths caused by HIV/AIDS this year

5,324,978
Deaths caused by cancer this year

3,241,206
Deaths caused by smoking this year

1,621,628
Deaths caused by alcohol this year

875,231
Road traffic accident fatalities this year

I’m not even including CVD deaths which are the highest of all.

Lighting up a cigarette and driving your car are more likely to kill you but people do this regularly yet they fear COVID more??

Now WHO is noting that vaccination programs are suffering in the face of Covid so prepare for measles outbreaks with an R0 of about 15 which is about 5 times higher than Covid has ever been.

Then there are risks of famine from people who can’t work in the third world due to shutdowns.

Plus the rises in domestic violence and the lack of education for many children kept out of school. Plus the fact we are terrifying our children who are statistically in close to zero danger (0.8 percent of those shown to have been infected even get sick!)

Plus the costs to the economy which people think can just bounce back but it won’t!

 

So just let tens of thousands more die


You think the economy could withstand that?

you’re wrong

 

we have yet to see what Corona does when paired with the common flu this winter

hopefully it won't be that bad, but it could be

 

the Trump shutdown guidelines were flawed, I will give you that, he should have only shutdown hotspots and pushed social distancing more

 

What are you proposing as an alternative to dying? Continuously stomping your foot and screaming "This is unacceptable! " is not a course of action and does not prevent deaths.

 

I like your digression-- it sickens me to hear people praising Wilson as one of our greatest Presidents-- and I've had exactly the same thought about the ultimate consequences of our ill-advised (by George Washington, from the grave) involvement in the 1st World War.

As for Covid-19, I'll point out to your scientific mind that there is no direct parallel between the lethality of a virus & the length of time it will be around-- we still haven't licked the common cold, remember. And Covid is certainly a lot more serious of a pathogen. Hopefully, science will give us the means, & thoughtful public policy will employ it effectively (& the virus will continue to cooperate by not drastically mutating) so as to minimize the risk as much as possible. But LOTS of people HAVE been killed by this, and many more will fall victim to it before there's a vaccine. And even old people count as people.

 

I appreciate your thoughtful response.
To drag out the digression just a bit further, I think that without US intervention, world war 1 would have fought out to a stalemate giving the Germans much better terms in an armistice. Likely they wouldn’t have been so humiliated and desperate to embrace the Nazis. So in a very real way the US helped to create this environment.

The reason I even bring this up is to demonstrate that the 1918 pandemic was largely the creation of forced social closeness on troop ships delivering dead and sick American troops to Europe and then spreading it like wildfire there. It was artificial and utterly without purpose as Americans had no interest in the outcome of that war but Wilson was a stubborn and willful man.

Now, moving beyond this preamble to the points that people have indeed died. True but I made a long list earlier of other perennial afflictions that are largely bring ignored (Particularly vis a vis covid) but still kill in greater numbers. Starvation and other communicable diseases have already accounted for over 10 million deaths this year alone and starvation is among the very very most agonizing ways to die.
Add to this that many places are reporting deaths when covid testing has not even been done based upon presumption that the symptoms are similar enough!
And then the economy has to be taken into consideration as well but is viewed as dispensable and easily fixed when this is over which the WHO says could take two years and it is impossible to lock things down for that long.
I look at proportions and see the mortality from CVD and cancer and give greatest priority of worry and hoped for resources to them.
I was in the heart of COVID here in the middle of March and learned there is very little any nation can do in the face of any determined virus. No matter how determined the government action.
People seem to like to look at raw numbers rather than proportions and to blame Trump for the American numbers seems a bit absurd to me in that I can’t imagine anything he could have done to prevent this when Belgium, Italy, Spain and the UK couldn’t control it themselves.
I have further thoughts but this post is already too long.

 

nah, just disconnect the utilities of those who don't wear masks outside in their own back yard

 

Fight this thing...on a national level

NY and the rest of the Northeast has it generally under control after getting devastated by it. We're doing this while it rages just across our borders.It can be done

 

Most developed countries did control it.

And you know that..

 

You were in the thick of Covid in March? So was I-- which of the tri-states do you call home (or are you West-Coast?). My town in CT is now experiencing a Covid resurgence. But, compared to NY & Jersey, my state got off lightly in the initial outbreak.

Well, now, I don't want to compound the tragedy of this pandemic w/ provoking a needless argument about it; and I take your points about the other, unceasing takers of life, esp. tragically the preventable ones, like starvation. But, in your reply to me, you've seemed to shift your thesis a bit away from, "Aww, Covid ain't so baad--" that paraphrasing's meant to be jocular, to lighten the mood a little, not to offend-- to a much finer focus on defending our President Trump's effort. If you have the data, I welcome its inclusion, lengthiness be damned! But I have relied on the news media who've I've heard saying pretty roundly that the U.S. outbreak has been one of the most entrenched, & that transmission & death rates exceed most other countries (though I doubt the accuracy of a few of the nations, run by despots, like Russia, which have claimed stellar results-- not to take away from their lightning quick vaccine, if it turns out to be both safe & effective).

I did always recognize the soundness of the travel restrictions he put in place, called pointless at the time by those in the media who now tell me he should have done it sooner & been more inclusive with them. But, come on, it's been obvious that Pres. Trump hasn't taken this situation as seriously as have South Korea, Japan, Germany, and on, and on. Also, we've had numerous shortages here (tests, masks, etc.) that did not plague other 1st-World nations, while the Prez has refused to use his power under the Defense Production Act to force manufacturers to produce even the easily-manufactured items. I assume it is a philosophical aversion to FORCING businesses to act in service of the nation; except that he did FORCE meat-packing plants to remain open, despite those being one of the primary hot-spots for Covid infections & vectors for its transmission throughout the community.

I'd guess that you know all these things, already, as well as that no one, including the WHO, is saying that economies should shut down for 2 yrs., until this is over. They are saying that certain protocols, like speedy test results & contact tracing in order to immediately quarantine those who would otherwise keep spreading the virus, should be in place to safely open for business. Once again, I give credit where it's due (like Gov. Andrew Cuomo), & applaud the things Trump has done: e.g., working out the deal w/ GM to manufacture ventilators, sending the medical, carrier-ships to NY & elsewhere, and others. And, I'll admit that President theDonald had been right about some things (that the # of ventilators NY thought they'd need, based on the expert assessments of a worst-case scenario, was overblown or, at least, didn't actually come to pass) as well as wrong about some things (our overall death toll & when this would end). But, under these circumstances, the responsible course is to do whatever can reasonably be done to PREPARE for the worst, & that our President has not made this his priority, is only too clear.

 

First of all I’m not even in the states any longer.

In early to mid March I was in the midst of at least 20 Italians who were coughing like mad. This was here in Amsterdam just before the Italians shut their borders. I had a horrible cough for 5 weeks which was unpleasant but not debilitating.

The Netherlands instituted intelligent lockdown which allowed for controlled and intentional exposure and it was wildly successful unlike neighboring Belgium which relied almost entirely on tight lockdown to deal with COVID. The only things that closed were bars, restaurants, coffeehouses and schools while retail and pick up food and pot services went on as normal.
Covid is not a danger here due to that wisdom.

Viruses are relentless.

Like Gloria Estefan said about rhythm, the virus is going to get you one way or the other.

And while I too take issue with Trump on other issues I can’t take issue with his handling of the virus.

Obama tacitly made Trump responsible for every American death.

What could Trump have done that Belgium, Italy, Spain or The UK did not do when their methods proved to be failures?

 

Well that Dutch strategy of closing bars, restaurants, coffeehouses, & schools sounds worth a try. Have all these been reopened yet? How long were they closed? Of course, the problem w/ closing schools here, where daycare isn't the, I assume, government-subsidized service it is there, is that a lot of people have no place to keep the younger kids while they're working.

 

Nearly everything is reopened now even the RLD. I disagreed with closing schools or day cares as the statistics showed virtually no danger in that demographic here. I also thought that nursing homes should have been put in a special protective class with extremely protective procedures in place.
Kids are very protected here and parents are not penalized for working like in the US.
By western European standards, I think the Dutch did the best job of balancing the economy against the threat.
By eastern Asian standards I think the Japanese did best.
The US has yet to be evaluated in the league tables as that hurricane is happening presently.

 

I'm a Trump fan. I'm 75. I see this China virus as a purposeful attack on the world's economy by the CCP. Especially an attack on the USA. We are at war with China and it is just starting to get hot.

Besides, here in America, this is mostly a pandemic caused and supported by the Democrat-Socialists and the Left. The number of Covid-19 deaths are way over stated. Look up the official definition of a Covid-19 death by the CDC.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...-are-coronavirus-death-counts-exactly-n394897

George Floyd's death is listed as a Covid-19 death.

 

Yes and even if you are killed in an automobile accident if you were tested for covid, it is considered a covid death!!!

There was no reason to release Floyd’s covid testing info and I’m shocked that this was not also listed as a covid death. But I guess it was politically not expedient to do so as it competed with two opposing agendas.