Is Confederate flag a symbol of hate?

Some things are de facto illegal in that hordes of people in a mob do what they want - and if you tried flying a Confederate flag near a BLM protest, you'd learn the real value of the word legal.

 

At least the actual view only counts and not what was once the case ... but you have this opinion, I have another one.

About genocide...
I am German, my ancestors where social democrats and in opposition to Hitler. One of my 2 grandfathers had to flee out of Germany due to be social democrat and entered the French Foreign Legion around 1937. He was stationed in Northern Africa and his unit changed side to the De Gaulle French and fought with the Brits in Northern Africa against Rommel and later in Italy too.
Due to this fact and others like being also social democrats, his parents and his sister and other relatives were put in concentration camps. Here his parents die, as well 2 others. His sister was liberated by the British in the Bergen Belsen concentration camp ... actually by a German air force unit that happened to be there during retreat in the last days of the war and with gun drawn etc. made sure that none of the SS could escape from the camp and waited for the British.

So ... being active Neo-Nazi and hater by my own, I think I don't think that your last comment fits to me at all!

 

Isn't it interesting how some of the forum's erudite 'scholars' will launch into labyrinthine explanations of their interpretations of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and everything else germane to this nation's foundation -- but completely ignore core portions of the original Constitution and Bill of Rights -- specifically, the 10th Amendment -- and then go on blithely to rationalize the inclusion of the 14th Amendment AFTER the Civil War was over! "Situation Ethics" much...?

But, it's been said a thousand times that the victors get to write the histories, and justify whatever actions they wish for the future in which they continue to rule and project power.

 

There is a big difference between being related to people who were in one war or another; a horse of a different color when you are IN the war. My "opinions" were formed by experience, not hearing others talk about what is happening. When I say experience, I mean political and legal activism. That means marching in protests and fighting for Rights in courts. It means making public appearances and speaking out, being interviewed on tv, radio and newspapers. Experience means going to school and reading thousands of pages of material whereupon one goes into a line of work where they put those thousands of pages to use and read even more. Experience means face to face debate and discourse with those who are adamant about their positions. Experience is about having to defend yourself from physical assaults so you have to be physically fit as well as well schooled. Do that for a few decades and you gain experience. The one advantage I have is knowing that when I issue a challenge and the other side has to play on a level playing field, they are going to forfeit.

The United States of America is under siege whether they, or others, realize it or not. That is not opinion. That's just fact. In the county I live in, it was rural in 1970. In the 1980 Census it was 83 percent white. While the newest figures are not out, we have 937,000 + people living here and are now the second most populous county in this state. It was almost all Republican territory until about 2012. Today, whites are less than half of the population in this county, their numbers cut by 25 percent in two decades. The liberals hate, loathe and despise the fundamental principles upon which the Republic was founded. And this place is indicative of what is happening in every state. The Confederate flag issue is one about the majority accepting the cultural heritage, history, and customs of the people who live here. The majority does not accept the minority and, consequently, we do not have the same "rights" as the masses. Furthermore, the anti-Confederate flag sentiment is part and parcel of a larger discussion whereby the non-whites work in a very subtle manner to censor the Rights of white people. When you've looked into the eyes of the liberals and witnessed as much hate, intolerance, bigotry, and prejudice as I have, it's a totally different experience than reading about wars and politics from the perspective of the victor of a past conflict.

 

Slavery and racism aren't the same. One can reject slavery by conviction, but still consider other races to be inferior.

 

This whole thread is a convoluted collection of posts where people conflate racism with white supremacy and white supremacy with the Confederate flag and then use slavery as the political pretext for keeping this thread alive. Reality check:

1) Racism does not mean white supremacy. A white supremacist might be a racist, but not all racists are white supremacists (and I'm not being facetious, I'm limiting that to white people for purposes of this post)

2) White supremacy is not being practiced in today's society

3) The concept and application of the term white supremacy is different than it was during the War of Northern Aggression

4) The Confederate flag represented / represents more than a race concept after the War of Northern Aggression. The REAL NO BS issue is the federal government passing ex post facto laws and limiting the Rights of the states which made the Union the enemy of Liberty and Freedom. Everything beyond that is fluff.

 

you're in total denial.

the VP of the Confederacy made it plainly clear that the foundation and core values upon which the Confederacy was built, was slavery of the black man and the natural inferiority of blacks compared to whites. He even claimed this was ordained by God as the Mark of Cain.

 

What NONE of you liberals even try to understand is that at that time in the 19th-century, slavery was not at all abnormal! BUT, NO ONE IS TRYING TO DEFEND SLAVERY TODAY! Can you possibly get that simple thing through your heads?!

Great Britain did not discontinue slavery until 1833 -- and it did not end in France until 1848. Moreover, slavery had been an essential part of much of Colonial America from long before the United States even came into existence, and it was an absolutely essential part of the economy of the Southern states!

Because there were no legal grounds for limiting, restricting, or forbidding slavery in the Constitution, the Southerners were horrified at the idea that Northern power-brokers and their stooges in Federal government were going to try to cripple their whole way of life anyway! They decided that because Lincoln and his Northern 'masters' had no regard at all for the 10th Amendment to the Constitution, they needed to leave this horribly over-centralized Federal government and form their own nation -- the Confederate States of America!

We hear radical-Democrat liberals blowing off over and over about how the Confederates just wanted to have slavery -- and in a sense -- they're RIGHT! Because there were no laws against it, and because through States' Rights, any state that WANTED to permit slavery could do so!

Are we finally straight on this point now?! If not, how in hell can we ever be...? Re-read the 10th Amendment to the Constitution:

"Slavery" and many other things in 1860 were NOT up to the Feds to determine!

 

meanwhile the South seceded so as to preserve, protect and defend white supremacy and slavery of black people.

and then the USA finally made slavery illegal by amending the Constitution.

 

So you was in a war?
Good ... I was too. I was in Ex-Yugoslavia (Bosnia) and I was in Somalia in issue of UN blue helmet mission. My rank was comparable to your first seargent (we have some more NCO ranks than you in the US and also other meanings and jobs of them as you etc.) and I was a sniper.
Was shot at me? Yes! Did I get hit? Yes, but thanks to the gunshot vest, only a slight insertion shot from an AK-47. Did I shoot and hit? Yes, once definitely fatal, once unknown whether it was me or the colleague because we both fired at the same target in same second, which was then for 100% sure dead.
Have I witnessed atrocities and war crimes? Yes ... it leaves for example its marks when you see a 5 or 6 year old boy get half his head shot off by a Serbian sniper ... or find and free a dozen Croatian girls and women being massive raped and tortured by Bosnian Muslims ! So don't tell me something about missing experiences please!

I always told that this complete discussion about the rebel flag is bullshit, because here I agree that it is part of your American history and so heritage and the stars and bars is not standing as an evil symbol as it is given with the Nazi Swastika flag.

BUT ... please stop to put the whites into a victim rule! Depending to the sources about, US people are:

- about 60% are Whites
- about 18% are Latinos
- about 13% are Afro Americans
- about 6% are Asian
- rest of dfferent origin, for example natives

As told, depending on source +/- some percent here and there at the figures above...

The US definitely has a racism problem against blacks and others too. There are around 4 times as many whites as blacks in the US and officially state racism in the last US states didn't end until the 1960s! Until then there was general racial segregation and that is without any if and but racism if there are people like "White only" or "Black only"!
But the racism didn't stop there and continues to this day. The topic itself is very extensive and requires deeper research in order to understand the entirety and causes ... because the issue is not just black and white, a lot is also gray!
You may see everything differently, just as you see the whole thing differently with the 14th Amendment to the Constitution ... and you are right and I respect this right even without "if and but" ... but I do not share your view!

 

Minds that are utterly opaque and completely impermeable are irrational, implacable, and, DANGEROUS. How can you reason with them when they will not even DISCUSS the FACTS of a matter?!

I presented you with FACTS, Ronnie -- FACTS, dates, and the 10th Amendment of the Constitution. Your reply above? Completely irrelevant and oblivious of anything I presented to you. Then I pity you, much as I pity some poor insect that a child has put in a jar....

Being a hyperliberal Leftist Democrat, drenched in revisionist propaganda, must be a lot like that poor insect's life....

. "What's so bad about life in a jar? They feed you, you're protected, and you don't have to THINK at all!"

 

They might be rooted in similar thinking.
But slavery is putting it into practice and actually owning other humans. There are no thought crimes.

 

No one is saying anyone is defending slavery.
What your defending are the monuments to those who went to war against the USA to own black people.

What other countries that had slavery that you mention, have monuments memorializing them in public places because they supported and fought for slavery?

 

I want you to think about something and you don't have to answer. Do you think that Bill Clinton OR Donald Trump really gave two hoots in Hell about the immigration issue (and bear in mind, Trump is only advocating putting teeth into Clinton's rhetoric)? The point being, politicians are always making political statements.

It is noteworthy that some people believed that the Mark of Cain was for his descendants to be black. Some say that the curse of Ham was that his descendants were to be black. Some people believe that blacks are pre-Adamites. Not sure what difference it makes. The nonwhite world looks at whites today and accuses them of being subhuman, savages, and genetic mistakes.

 

I do not expect you to share my view. All I can tell you is that you are wrong. China, Japan, North Korea and South Korea (and maybe a dozen or so small countries) are all 98 + percent homogeneous. There are more Chinese in China than there are white people on the face of the earth. For some reason, for the white people to have their own culture, heritage and customs is perceived as "wrong." It is a standard not set anywhere else in the world.

You see "racism" as being wrong... so long as it is practiced in the United States. I'm not wasting bandwidth to proselytize you. The United States defeated King George before the UK was ruled by King George. Since that time the United States has sent more missionaries into the world to save non-whites than the UK has even considered sending. As a matter of fact, the United States has sent more missionaries into the world than any other country on this planet. We send out almost THREE times as many missionaries as the country that is in second place, which is Brazil. We've given far more lives in wars to protect Liberty and Freedom than where you're from (both in raw numbers and per capita). And, while it is fashionable to wail about "racism," the United States donates money and the lives of soldiers to help people in places like Saudi Arabia where Christians are not allowed to practice their faith in public - so you know Christians aren't holding any public offices there.

The United States is a country that was founded for the preservation, protection and advancement of the white race. Yet, despite that, we opened our doors and people came from all over the world to engage in free trade and to profit off what we could produce as a direct consequence of what a white government created. Now, we're being asked to accept the proposition that it was all somehow evil, despite the fact that YOUR country has engaged in far worse. Where I come from, it is taught that two wrongs never make a right. The United States is being held to a different standard AND being told that "racism" is a social construct while those proclaiming such loot, shoot, rob, rape, pillage and burn under the banner of Black Lives Matter. It is only a social construct so long as we're talking about the white race. Blacks here have Black History Month. I'd be here all day long if I wanted to show you the double standards. My point is, you cannot scare me with an emotion laden buzz word. I won't let you hold me to a different standard than that applied to other countries.

The United States started out 231 years ago with only whites being eligible for citizenship. Today you say that the country is 60 percent white. Of those, many are self hating white liberals; some whites are actually people like Jews and many times they do not consider themselves as being "white." So, when you have people that look white, but don't identify as being white; people who hate their race and vote against its best interests; throw in those who are involved in inter-racial marriages, we are a minority in our own country and on the world scene as a whole. And so, if it requires feeble attempts to shame whites for having what many other countries have (i.e. their own culture, heritage, history, customs, etc.) for you to feel you've accomplished something here, then more power to you. But, when I see our numbers dwindling and our history being erased, it is genocide. No matter how you attempt to justify it, it is what it is.

 

and white racists look at non-whites as "untermenschen, inferior savages".

 

funny, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence says no such thing.

sounds like FAKE NEWS

 

Going on the Nov. 3rd ballot. This will be the new Mississippi flag if passed, or go back to square one new selection process if not passed.

Will pass easily imo, has my vote.



My favorite above made the final five, but not everybody is a river rat like me.

 

Honestly, looking back across my posts in this thread, I never once wrote the word, "monument" or "monuments"....

I don't care about monuments much, Dairy... never have.... Pigeons crap on them.

No, what I care about -- DEEPLY -- is the Constitution of the United States. Me and a lot of other people SWORE AN OATH to defend our Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. And you know what...? The oath never expired!

 

that is a lovely flag.

much nicer than the one with the hate symbol on it.

bravo, Mississippi!!!

 

Monuments, the Confederate flag, they fall into the same category.
Take out monuments in my post and replace with the Confederate flag.
Those who went to war against the USA are the very folks you took an oath to defend against. They were domestic enemies.

I took same oath for my 13 yrs ARNG.

 

Well, we will obviously continue to 'agree to disagree', I suppose. A nation's flag is not a 'monument', Dairy, but you can believe that if you want to.

Those who deliberately trod on the Constitution of the United States as it stood in 1860 were the REAL domestic enemies, Diary -- Lincoln and the Northern 'Barons' who wanted to crush the South and take control over the entire nation. You will disagree, of course, and so, there it is.... You can read the Constitution as easily as I can... it's not difficult or obscure in what it says.

 

Segregationists are not white supremacists. So, now you understand.

“it will readily be understood that there are but two alternatives for the future; the negroes and the whites must either wholly part or wholly mingle” (Tocqueville 432). After making this claim, de Tocqueville makes his own prediction for the future of the country in regards to their current practice of slavery. He says: “I do not imagine that the white and black races will live in a country upon an equal footing” (Tocqueville 433).

https://www.ipl.org/essay/Summary-Of-Alexis-De-Tocqueville-PK6VA77ESJP6

More than 150 years after the War of Northern Aggression, that prediction is still holding true. AND, it is the white race that is being forced out of their own country and forced to be lorded over by the third world. Between massive immigration and the eradication of our nation's history, heritage, customs, and culture by black supremacists and their apologists, it amounts to subtle genocide against the Posterity of the Constitution.

 

Looks like something a snowflake came up with and lacks any depth of character for a state.

 

So you feel that Trump is worse than Andrew Jackson? What has Trump done that could begin to compete with the Trail of Tears or with Wilson’s insistence on entering World War One or FDR’s support of internment camps for US citizens of Japanese descent or LBJ sending massive troops to Vietnam under a lie or George W Bush lying about weapons of mass destruction to upset a delicate power balance in the Middle East causing untolled misery there followed up with Obama destabilizing Libya and further destabilizing Syria.
In these comparisons of just the horrible US presidents that come immediately to mind, how is it that Trump is the worst?