Are the Palestinians the Jews NOT expelled from Judaea after Bar Kochba Revolt?

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by DennisTate, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Just shows what happens, in the abscence of an international rules-based system.

    1. UN voted to partition Palestine, simultaneously ending the British mandate.
    2. Jews in Palestine unilaterally declared the creation of the state of Israel, as a fait accompli.
    3. The Arabs (in their ignorance) declared war on this new state.

    What was supposed to happen is: the UN would be able to mandate the terms of the creation of, and the security of the new state of Israel.

    But the UNSC had been relegated to virtual 'observer' status the year before - by the forced adoption of the veto in the SC.

    So Israel has been an 'outlaw' state ever since (in international law...which doesn't exist, as explained above) eg ignoring UN res 181 and later 242, which would have confirmed two independent states side by side, with a jointly-administered capital in Jerusalem.
    .....thereby confirming that Islam and Judaism worship the same God.

    But Man, apparently subject to uncomprehending existential terror, thrives on blind ideology.

    Why is it so difficult to agree on One God, One reality?

    [eg, the Pope - like Marcion 2000 years ago - needs to acknowledge that Jesus is not Jehovah, and Christians need to acknowledge the Trinity is a doctrine not mentioned in the NT; and Muslims, who should have been smart enough to welcome Jews into Palestine in 1947 as brother believers in the One True God, need to acknowledge that the Koran, while sensibly dismissing the Trinity, is assuredly not the final perfect Word of God, given its foundation in barbarous dark age behaviours and beliefs].

    So to answer the question of the OT (ie re the people who remained after the 2nd century expulsion): very possibly...and such knowledge may well assist in the abandoment of the two state solution, in favour of a final unification of the Abrahamic faiths, but with a new unitary conception of God (who is not the 'jealous', 'man of war" OT God), in Palestine-Israel, with Jerusalem the expression of this unity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  2. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The difficulty in agreeing on one god isn't god its the dogma various humans have invented to define him and how he is to be worshiped.

    The difficulty in agreeing on one reality has nothing to do with god, but everything to do with with individual human perception.
     
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  3. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I think I said that in my post, but some say there is no God, so I wanted to include them in the objective 'reality' of truth (ie, not subject to limited human perception).

    I see the problem.

    You said God isn't involved in the difficulty (for humans) of agreeing on One God.

    But that only holds if everyone agrees on the reality of God's existence.

    Meanwhile, an individual's subjective experience of God is different to everyone else's …., and I don't want an argument with Richard Dawkins... especially since he has expressed his wonder and awe vis a vis an apparently infinite universe; ie, he might also believe in (or better, perceive) 'God', but is perceiving divinity via science, rather than via imperfect man-made scripture, or however other people perceive God.

    Thanks. You have helped me to answer my own question.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
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  4. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Partly......... but they could partly be the descendants of the Messianic Jewish community that was not expelled from the Roman province of Judaea..... because they did not join in the Bar Kochba Revolt.
     
  6. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    Most American Jews outside NY/NJ have pretty much intermarried out at rates of 50-80 percent !!
    Florida jews are all dying out
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow!!!!!! I did not know that!
     
  8. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    NYC Jews tend to marry Jews

    I was in Oregon and the Jews look fake
     
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But.... King David and King Solomon and all of their grandparents in the higher invisible dimensions of space and time recognize each and every one of their great, great, great, great grandchildren........ as their grandchildren!
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Excellent!

    From what I have read the Russians set that all up beginning back in the seventies.


    http://www.tldm.org/News9/RussianInfluenceOnMideast.htm

     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The problem with this theory is that the US is alone in supporting Israel's assault on Palestine and in effecting the total failure of negotiations between the two states.

    Plus, Russia was a signee of the agreement the US negotiated on Iran. They were on OUR side.

    It just doesn't answer ANY of the questions concerning Israel's criminal ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is a valid point...... Jews..... just like all other races of people have not one hundred percent eliminated the human tendency toward racism, nationalism or tribalism.

    It is kind of amazing how many Palestinian Muslims sort of admire President Yasser Arafat in spite of what has came out regarding his probable motives....... and training.


    https://www.tldm.org/news9/russianinfluenceonmideast.htm


    The remedy for our tendency to think at least somewhat in a racist manner that I have been promoting might not be what you would expect.



    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...d-past-life-regression-under-hypnosis.384268/
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my opinion.... when the average Israeli..... maybe even a relatively "feeble" Israeli... (whatever that means)... is asking themselves if the Palestinian neighbour that they know fairly well might perhaps be one of their great, great, great, great grandparents....... reincarnated as a Palestinian....... THEN.. . the stage is all set up for Shalom across the national borders of the Middle East!



    What Judaism Says About Reincarnation
    Though some Jewish thinkers vigorously rejected the notion of reincarnation, kabbalists embraced it enthusiastically.

    BY RABBI LOUIS JACOBS



    IGNORANCE of the Gilgul cycle on the part of the average Israeli, (not to mention their scholars and religious leaders).... is one of the major reasons why Israelis are not really even at peace with each other...... least of all with Palestinians.

    "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." (Hosea 4:6)



    I used the word "feeble" because of this promise.

    "In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them." (Zechariah 12:8)



    There is a particular near death experience account that has massive implications for all Israeli Jews, Palestinians and for the relationship between Jews, Muslims and Christians over the next few centuries.



    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ination-for-nobel-prize-in-literature.542590/

     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This issue has NOTHING to do with "past life regression".
     
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  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Did that resolve the problems with the IRA? Do you think that those living in Ireland, Wales, Scottland and England don't know their own history?

    Did that resolve the problems between the colonies and England?

    Do you think our founders had no clue about where they came from?

    You want to actually PROMOTE race as an issue?

    This isn't about race. It's not about religion, either. Let's remember that both Jews an Palestinians are VERY aware of the origins of their religions. Do you think western nations can help by explaining to Palestinians and Israelis where they came from as a people and as a religion? What is your answer to the Israelites stealing land by slaughtering every man, woman and child in Jericho? Is THAT the religious origins stoy you think might help?


    What this problem is about is clearly stated out in our own declaration of independence. As humans, we have rights that are inalianable.

    And, it comes at a time when Israel's actions over the last DECADES has been a continuing humanatarian atrocity, explicity defying the fundamental tenets WE believe.

    The USA was a major mover in this total injustice. Even today, Israel gets to continue this atrocity because the USA supports it with the full force of our military, our political presence in the UN and our influence with a few European nations.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The English word "nothing" corresponds to some degree to Quantum Vacuum....... and when they attempt to quantify the level of energy at Quantum Vacuum...... their instruments go off the scale.

    Some very intelligent people... such as fans of Dr. Ian Stevenson might just be able to present a powerful thesis that the reincarnation cycle has EVERYTHING to do with the conflicts in the Middle East....... (but I admit that this basic idea is unlikely to be understood for several more decades).




    If the evidence that sure seems to support some form of reincarnation is valid..... and true..... then this whole thing could be the Creator testing us over and over and over and over again in many lives.......... and then after we die.... we finally begin to understand how brilliant the plan really was.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's time we work on not failing!

    Surely our support for the ongoing humanitarian atrocity Israel is perpetrating (and that WE started and continue to support) would be a good place to begin.

    As a practical matter, OBL pointed out his success in recruiting for terrorist activities those locked in Palestinian refugee camps who starve in hopeless squallor as they are prevented from moving to the homes they own in Israel.

    When America's colonies were subjected to the far less serious issues of not having enough politial voice, WE WENT TO WAR.

    Why do we think that others subjecte to FAR worse, who are denied the rights we document as absolute, will not fight?

    AND, why do you switch to some supernatural whoo haa when PROVEN answers of cause and effect are so well understood?? I don't see how your comments aren't PURELY an excuse for continued support for atrocity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Many of the people who donated to Yaser Arafat wanted him to make life as awful as possible for Palestinians so that they could be recruited into terrorist organizations.


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arafats-billions/

     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Arafat was certainly a problem.

    But, any mention of him today is purely in the range of making excuses.

    Isn't it time to move beyond excuses?

    What possible escuse is there fo tolerating the humanitarian atrocity that has continued fo DECADES?
     
  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The images of Palestinians burning greenhouses because they had been made by Israeli Jews......... does leap to mind...... and I am thinking that if Israeli Jews and Christians began to take one ancient Islamic prediction seriously..... . this happening could be one important little step in the right direction?

    Palestinian Militants Ransack Former Gush Katif Greenhouses
    Damage is irreparable; international donors had purchased the greenhouses from evacuated settlers for benefit of the Palestinians



    .......

    If the Palestinians want to be taken seriously they have to prove that they love their own children and grandchildren more than they hate the Israeli Jews and want to push them into either the Mediterranean Sea.... or the Red Sea... or the Dead Sea!

    If the Palestinians force their leadership to make a major shift toward agreement with Isaiah chapter thirty five..... based perhaps at least partly on one of their own ancient predictions .... .then........ this could turn out to be win - win - win - win - win for all of us because every cubic meter of ocean water that is desalinated and added to the water table of a nation with lots of desert is good news for any area of the world vulnerable to the threat of rising ocean levels!?

    After the Abraham Peace Accord turn deserts green...



     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Palestinians are human beigns just like every other human being in this world.

    Your claim that they have to do something to earn personhood could not be more profoundly flawed.

    Our constitution, our declaration of independence, our law does not suggest a person is not a person until they "prove" themselves.

    And, YOU keep promoting the continuation of the humanitarian atrocities that are perpetrated against these people in Gaza and West Bank.

    So, your consideration of the law and your respect for human beings are FAR to compromised to be taken seriously.

    The very first steps that are absolute requirements are representation by the people and an end to ethnic cleansing.

    This isn't just my opinion. In the GWBush "roadmap" on this conflict, the requirements Bush established for entering negotiations included a halt in ethnic cleansing.

    Israel refused.

    They demanded that they be allowed to continue ethnic cleansing while using military force to grow their holdings in Palestine DURING negotiations for borders!!!

    And, that is a CRYSTAL CLEAR view of the depths of Israeli criminality and inhumanity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  22. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Please provide a list of all instances of ethnic cleansing in the territories: places, date, numbers, names, what happened to those cleansed, testimonies.

    Please quote the relevant "halt in ethnic cleansing" passages from the Bush roadmap.
     
  23. Denizen

    Denizen Well-Known Member

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    Genetic testing would be stunning if it demonstrated close genetic relationship between Palestinians and Jews.

    Certainly, the Ashkenazi Jews from Europe won't have any genetic link to native Jews.

    How many Ashkenazi Jews are bogus and are claiming Jewish descent, without proof, for their economic benefit?
     
  24. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    I'm very not sorry to disappoint you, but genetic studies already demonstrated close genetic relationships between Ashkenazi, Sefardi, and Mizrahi Jews. Ashkenazi Jews are closer to Iraqi Jews, even though the two communities have been separated for more than two millennia - than to any European population.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032072/

    Genetics and race are used against Jews, again, this time by parts of the left. The old hatred seems to be woven into the fabric of space-time itself, subject to the same conservation laws as matter and energy. In your world, the only good, worthy, real Jews are those who don't thrive, keep their heads down, and never claim any rights for themselves. In your world, the only good, worthy, real Jews, are those who don't dare behave like the rest of the humankind.

    Lo and behold, the new and improved fig leaf to conceal shameful racism: "Ashkenazi Jews are not real Jews, hating them is not antisemitic, I'm not an antisemite, I can afford myself to hate Ashkenazi Jews and not be seen as a racist". Pfftt.

    I'm so lucky to live in the real world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    LOL!!!

    What a weak try at sophistry!

    Have you even bothered to look at a map?

    Since 1967, Palestinians in occupied territories have been ruled by Israeli military law in which they have no representation - law that is administered in part by mercenaries paid by Israel.

    And, Israel's ethnic cleansing is clearly demonstrated by the constantly moving "wall" and the increase in Israeli controled Palestine - all the way to the Jordan river!

    There is NO legal basis for that occupation.
     

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