Should Trump concede if he loses?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Ronstar, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. NightOwl

    NightOwl Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2020
    Messages:
    2,812
    Likes Received:
    3,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Which is exactly what mail in voting effectively does.
     
    ToddWB and Ddyad like this.
  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,268
    Likes Received:
    25,271
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Eliminating the secret ballot is the objective of mail-in voting.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The virus was not secret and he was roundly critizied including by Biden for the travel ban. Biden would not have issued one AT ALL and millions would have died.


    The last two he was and the Republican House starting in 2011 at least started to bring some fiscal sanity and regulation curbs although Obama loved to use his been to skirt having to properly get legislation. And the fact remains it was the worst recovery in modern history your attempt to make Fox News your bogey man notwithstanding. It cost us billions and failed by their own measure. We DO NOT need a repeat of that the Trump policies prior the global pandemic and governors shutting down their economies were producing the strongest economy we had ever seen especially for the middle and lower classes and minorities. Those are the policies we need in force to get the economy back to that, NOT Biden socialist/progressive policies.
     
    ToddWB and Ddyad like this.
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Only 9 found. How many to determine who controlled the Virginia statehouse in 2016?
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The outcome if the 2000 Presidential race was decided by a margin of just 536 votes. In Virginia 2016 due to a dead tie in one district which party controllled the statehouse had to he decided by a flip of a coin just ONE fraudulent vote could have swung.

    Stop with the canard that a little bit of fraud is OK.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We have two cases and they are in court. In 2000 that is what the FSC tried to do.
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It doesn't have to be widespread stop with the canard.
     
  8. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    13,006
    Likes Received:
    14,654
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And you'd sacrifice 100.000 legitimate votes to protect against the nine.
     
  9. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    13,006
    Likes Received:
    14,654
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The more people that vote the less any fraud matters.
     
  10. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,268
    Likes Received:
    25,271
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When you see nine ants you know their are thousands more.

    "Luzerne County could be instrumental in deciding this year's presidential election.

    Located in the swing state of Pennsylvania, the county voted for former President Barack Obama in both 2008 and 2012 before flipping to Trump in 2016. While Obama won by 8.41 percent in 2008 and 4.81 percent in 2012, Trump dominated Luzerne County in 2016 with a 19.31 percent margin of victory.

    Carrying the Keystone State by less than one percent, Trump won all 20 of Pennsylvania's Electoral College votes.

    The county also had a higher voter turnout in the last presidential election by nearly 12 percentage points. More than 67 percent of registered voters in the county cast a ballot, compared with the national voter turnout of 55.5 percent.This November, Trump will be hoping for a repeat victory in the same county that went for Obama."
    NEWSWEEK, In Luzerne County PA, Where Voters Went for Obama then Trump, FBI Finds Discarded Military Ballots Cast for Trump, By Katherine Fung, 9/25/20.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...d-military-ballots-cast-for-trump/ar-BB19oDjB
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  11. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,272
    Likes Received:
    16,943
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    In order for it to impact a national election, it most certainly does. Out of some 165 million or so votes that will be cast, minor mishaps here and there are inevitable, and
    this has always been true. This president is amplifying such mishaps with the obvious purpose of undermining the integrity of the process, which it is calculated by team Trump
    to create a sense of apathy about the system, in the hopes of that many will stay home.

    Trump doesn't like mail in ballots, because it will allow for more votes cast, which will, more than offset the higher spoilage rate that comes with mail ( absentee ballots or otherwise ) ballots. Given the far fewer polling places due to Covid, he knows that many people will not be willing to wait 4 or more hours in line, noting that republicans have reduced the number of polling places disproportionately in minority neighborhoods he is hoping minorities will go home, resulting with fewer votes cast in that demographic, which republicans deem as helpful to them.
    .
    But, alas, democrats can see right through this ploy and will be voting in historic numbers which no republican can prevent, no matter how hard they try.

    We will overcome all the deficits republicans have intentionally incurred due to their massive voter suppression techniques,
     
  12. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,272
    Likes Received:
    16,943
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You once again make the misinformed mistake that we all vote in one election and all votes are counted national against each other. Are you US a citizen? If so didn't you ever study civics and how Presidents are elected. There are no national elections in this country PERIOD. The 2000 race was decided by a mere 536 votes. And the is not the ONLY election we have in this country, we have thousands of elections with local elections sometimes being VERY close.

    So stop with the canards about a little bit of voting fraud is OK, go educated yourself of what happened in Virgina 2016 for the statehouse and then come back and explain how a little bit of voter fraud can't affect and election.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Please answer what I asked you

    How many to determine who controlled the Virginia statehouse in 2016?
     
  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    False and you DO know we have LOTS of other elections in this country where mere hundreds vote for local officials and those elections can be very close. Your entire false premise is that we only vote in some national vote for President and that is it. As absurd as anything I have seen of late.
     
  16. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    5,339
    Likes Received:
    5,926
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Tim Pool is a moderate Democrat. And you can think Styx a right wing Republican?
     
  17. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,272
    Likes Received:
    16,943
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Are you talking about this?

    https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...ame-election-results-on-unsubstantiated-fraud

    The whole thing is bullshit right wing narrative. Lies lies and more lies.

    Then why aren't you talking about this?

    "In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally," Trump said in a tweet days after his 2016 victory.

    He said that when there is not ONE IOTA of evidence to support that claim, but you don't seem to give a damn when your guy is lying through his teeth, eh?

    "a little bit of voting fraud is okay?"

    No one has made that assertion, you are putting words in my mouth, and thus, you have created a:strawman argument.

    In any election of 165 million votes, there are going to be mishaps here and there. This will always happen, there is no way to avoid it. All we can do is strive to do better.

    No one is saying it is 'okay' and only YOU are calling it a 'little bit of fraud'. It's not okay, we all do the best we can.

    But the notion that the occasional mishap is 'evidence of massive fraud' is baseless.

    No one can predict where a race will come down to a few votes that happen in Florida, it could happen in any state, but it is not likely to happen in a lot or in many states. And it may, or may be, a replica of what happened in Gore v Bush. How many elections in the history of the US has this happened in a presidential election?

    This idea that someone in PA decides to toss 9 trump ballots hoping to throw in an election in the remote chance that the country's national election will hinge on nine votes in PA is mindbogglingly absurd. Not only is there no evidence of this, your premise is not even logical. Moreover, those 9 ballots were from the primary, but Trump is not making this distinction, he is going around on rallies shouting "dems are tossing ballots all over the place' yet you don't seem to mind that his doing this is not only false, it is deception and propaganda.

    You don't seem to give a **** a bout Trump's incessant lies and propaganda.

    The right is claiming that in any case of irregularity, which does happen in all elections, though not in great numbers, there is fraud.

    Well, the burden of proof lies with those making the claim there is fraudulent intent, and for all the hullabaloo, republicans have yet to prove their case.

    There are more logical fallacies in your premise. For example, the virginia 'statehouse' comparison. That logical fallacy is the false comparison. Smaller elections, smaller numbers are more critical, but in national elections, they are not. In local house races, they are more critical, but to have an impact on power distribution in the house, it would take a massive cross-state coordinated effort which is not logical, for anyone doing this would get caught and face serious jail time. Even then, I don't know what you are tlaking about, what I'm coming up with is that there was no fraud.

    In local elections, it's possible that one contender might try and cheat, who knows, in the annals of voting history, no doubt it has happened, but to argue that such cheating. if and when it happens, is part of a larger national conspiracy coordinated at the highest echelons, there is no evidence of that. Of course, it's not right, no one condones it, and it should be investigated, but investigated from a neutral position, with no aforethought as to who is guilty. Let the evidence go where it takes us, let the chips fall where they may.

    But, what Trump is doing, is making hay out of every little damn thing, and accusing opposition of fraud .

    Well, in my view, that is more criminal ( or supremely irresponsible at the very minimum ) than some local lackey tampering with a handful of ballots.

    And that is precisely what Trump is doing and you don't give a damn about that. You only give a damn about narratives, no matter how false they are, that forward the right wing agenda.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  18. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    34,260
    Likes Received:
    8,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The most likely scenario is that we will know on election night that Trump won and Democrats will cry for another four years...
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  19. PJO34

    PJO34 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    5,963
    Likes Received:
    1,296
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nonsense. The virus was already in the country and the partial travel ban excluded so many people that it was essentially useless. That "millions would have died" is a bull argument started on right-wing media to excuse Trump for his horrific response to the pandemic.

    Economics 101: The majority component of GDP is consumer spending. Fox News constantly reported that the economy was horrible during the Obama Admin which drove down consumer confidence, which lowered consumer spending which lowered GDP. We know it was nonsense because within a few months of Trump assuming office, Fox News started reporting how amazing the economy was and it was the same conditions as when Obama left. Remember, the last three years of the Obama admin beat the first three years of the Trump admin and that was before Trump's horrific bungling of the pandemic.

    And the country had to shut down. If a competent national response had occurred (it didn't), Trump would have worked with the governors to shut down at the same time, and he would have pressured GOP states to institute social distancing and mask wearing and he wouldn't be hobbling the CDC turning it into a complete disaster, destroying the agency's hard won reputation. He did now of that. He didn't invoke the Defense Production Act when PPE was desperately needed. He allowed industry to write the meatpacking "regulations" which resulted in meatpacking plants being hotbeds of the virus. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

    All you need to know is we have 4% of the world's population and about 20% of the world's deaths. It is borderline criminal how inept his response has been. And now with Dr. Atlas giving advice, it seems he is going for "herd mentality" which will result in between four to six million deaths if he is not ousted in January.
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Biden attacked the travels bans and did not concede to them until April, he would have caused millions of deaths for his inaction.

    No it didn't it reported the facts that it was the worst recovery in modern history which it was. Consumer spending was down because people were out of work due to the Democrats failure to first pass measures to help mitigate the slowdown that led to recession and then the failed stimulus. And the more the Republicans took back power starting in 2011 with the House the better things got and under the Republicans and Trump we had one of the best economies in our history.
    upload_2020-9-28_11-20-6.png

    To try and blame that entirely on FOX News is hilariously absure.

    Now we are trying to recover from the atomic bomb called COVID that hit the global economy. Which policies historically have done that better? Compare the slowdown/recession/dot.com bubble/911 Republican recovery to the 2008 slowdown/recession/mortgage bubble Democrat recovery and tell me why on earth you would want a repeat of the Democrat/Obama/Biden policies?
    And Trump did those things, you know the things Biden says he will do but have already been done. But governors control their stats NOT the President. And we don't know how many people worldwide have died from COVID because there is no standard for testing and reporting especially at the levels we do.
     
  21. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,163
    Likes Received:
    30,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    People still pretending the travel bans were some kind of remarkable success, huh? By the time Trump issued travel bans (and plenty of people were still able to travel from those countries), the virus was already here and spreading. Taiwan did WAY better than we did without a travel ban at all, and they have FAR more travel back-and-forth with China. The travel bans were a publicity stunt.
     
    MJ Davies likes this.
  22. PJO34

    PJO34 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    5,963
    Likes Received:
    1,296
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Who cares what Biden thought about the travel ban? The travel ban was ineffective and didn't save millions of lives. The travel ban would have saved lives if it prevented the virus from entering the country which it did not, and it may have saved lives if it slowed the spread of the virus and the federal government used that time to prepare effectively for the effects of the virus (which did not happen). Even then, any lives saved would be speculative and completely impossible to quantify. The fact is Trump bungled the response and many Americans died, and continue to die needlessly. It will go down as the worst dereliction of duty by a president in this country's history.

    LOL. Please list the measures the Republican congress took that improved the economy. I always thought that Congress passed bills and then the President signed them into law, but it seems in your reality, the Republican Congress was somehow able to pull the country out of the Great Recession. I would like to know how they did that without the President. The fact is much like a car doesn't stop immediately when the brake is applied, a recession does not end immediately when measures passed to ameliorate it are enacted. Sure, it took time to pull the country out of the Great Recession, but Trump's "miracle economy" was nothing more than the continuation of the same economic recovery started under Obama, except that Trump's first three years were not as good as Obama's last three years. Of course, like with his businesses, Trump took what he inherited and destroyed it through his incompetence.

    Perhaps because those policies led to an eight year economic expansion. I guess you prefer the "Great Recession" GW Bush left, or the borderline depression Trump will have left.

    Nonsense. Other countries have figured out testing and every other developed country has mitigated the virus better than we have. Trump isn't even competent enough to get the people to socially distance and to wear masks. His people are corrupting the CDC and with the advice or Dr. Atlas, it appears Trump want to go for "herd immunity" even though millions will die to achieve it (and that assumes people cannot be re-infected).
     
    MJ Davies and yardmeat like this.
  23. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    7,785
    Likes Received:
    2,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Should Trump concede if he loses?
    Absolutely. Every President of the U.S. has done so since the beginning in 1796. Why would anyone support ANY candidate with their vote who promises to damage or destroy a system that has made the U.S. a democratic success envied by much of the world. Trump should not harm that record.
     
  24. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Messages:
    16,924
    Likes Received:
    13,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    The Secret Service reports to the president, not Donald Trump or Barack Obama or anyone previous.

    No matter who wins, that person will be in office on 1/20/21, and there will be zero pushback.

    I've no idea why grown up Americans believe anything else is possible.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  25. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    24,711
    Likes Received:
    3,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He cannot go back to NY. They'll be waiting for him with handcuffs. His best bet would be to return to Florida and play golf until gets extradited back to NY.
     
    Moriah and edna kawabata like this.

Share This Page