Election 2020 > Blue State Secession?

Kindly REFRAIN from IMPOSING your own issues onto others!

You are ASSUMING that the Senate will REMAIN under the odious control of the GOP however if the Senate were to change hands then the Dems will be doing the counting of the EC votes in January 2021.

If your wannabe Fascist-in-Chief and the GOP try to RIG the EC votes in battleground states controlled by the GOP that Biden wins then the Dems in the Senate and just as easily pass a resolution on a voice vote deeming that all EC votes are allocated to the winners of their respective states and BYPASS the actual counts themselves.

That HYPOTHETICAL would ONLY be necessary of the GOP tries to NEFARIOUSLY rig the EC votes.

The problem with the GOP playing DIRTY POLITICS is that the Dems can do the same thing in return. They would be FULLY JUSTIFIED in doing so under those circumstances since the GOP rigging the EC votes would be a clear VIOLATION of the original INTENT of the Constitution and the EC.

 

Now you are just flailing again because you could NOT refute any of the FACTS that I posted.

Sad!

 

Seventeen states have already signed on to ABOLISHING the EC by rendering it null and void so it is only a matter of time now before it ends up in the trash where it belongs.

AZ will probably turn blue in November and there is a possibility that other states like GA and TX could too in which case it could even happen SOONER rather than later.

 

I'm not making any assumption about who will control the Senate. Right now RCP has it as a toss-up. I'm simply pointing out that in the scenario where the Electoral College is unable to make a selection, and the House doesn't settle on a President, then the Vice-President, selected by the Senate, will take over, not the Speaker, as you don't apparently understand. Here it is in plain English for you:

"Note that if a majority is not reached in the House vote (e.g., 25-25), that chamber needs to keep at it until the tie is broken. If the deadlock is still in place when the new term starts (noon, ET on Jan. 20), the vice president becomes acting president until such time as the House elects a president."

https://www.270towin.com/content/electoral-college-ties/

See, no mention of the Speaker becoming president. You're factually wrong on this point.

 

Hell, let them go and then conquer them, as should be easy. CA alone could defeat the rest of the country just with mercenaries. We might even bring back slavery for the vanquished occupants

Not a serious idea, I just have this fantasy about buying 3 or 4 Arkansas girls at auction

 

Once again you MOVE the goalposts!

Sad!

 

I haven't moved the goalposts at all. Here's what you claimed earlier:

You completely missed the Senate's role and Vice-President's spot in the line of succession. I suspect it was out of sheer ignorance, but if there was some other motive, feel free to enlighten us.

 

Kindly REFRAIN from PROJECTING your OWN "sheer ignorance" onto OTHERS!

NOTHING that I posted was INCORRECT!

The VP role is IRRELEVANT if there are INSUFFICIENT EC votes for your wannabe Fascist-in-Chief since they are BOTH on the SAME TICKET!

Obviously YOUR own "sheer ignorance" has PREVENTED you from grasping that all too OBVIOUS FACT!

 

You were wrong about the Speaker taking over. The VP, who can be elected by the Senate if no one wins a majority of the Electoral College, is next in the line of succession if the House can't settle on a President or something happens to him. That's the fact you were (and apparently still are) incorrect about.

I'm confident that I've made your mistake obvious to others though, so there's no need to continue belaboring the point with endless "nuh uh, you're wrong!" posts, especially when yours fly in the face of reality.

 

That's the standard for this election. Popular vote or they go to war.

From the New York Times:

“But conveniently, a group of former top government officials called the Transition Integrity Project actually gamed four possible scenarios, including one that doesn’t look that different from 2016: a big popular win for Mr. Biden, and a narrow electoral defeat, presumably reached after weeks of counting the votes in Pennsylvania. For their war game, they cast John Podesta, who was Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, in the role of Mr. Biden. They expected him, when the votes came in, to concede, just as Mrs. Clinton had.

But Mr. Podesta, playing Mr. Biden, shocked the organizers by saying he felt his party wouldn’t let him concede. Alleging voter suppression, he persuaded the governors of Wisconsin and Michigan to send pro-Biden electors to the Electoral College.

In that scenario, California, Oregon, and Washington then threatened to secede from the United States if Mr. Trump took office as planned. The House named Mr. Biden president; the Senate and White House stuck with Mr. Trump. At that point in the scenario, the nation stopped looking to the media for cues, and waited to see what the military would do. “

 

That is complete and utter bovine excrement AGAIN!

The LOSING ticket applies to BOTH the TOP and the BOTTOM of the ticket!

The Senate cannot ARBITRARILY appoint someone as VP without the HOUSE having the exact same ABILITY to arbitrarily appoint someone as POTUS! Since the House would be FOLLOWING the stipulated RULES of SUCCESSION that would make the SPEAKER the logical choice for POTUS.

You have created an IMAGINARY bubble scenario for yourself that doesn't work in REALITY,

Sad!

 

Somebody hasn't read the 12th Amendment, and that somebody is you

Here's some trivia for you that ought to clear some things up for you: How was Richard Johnson elected Vice-President in 1836?

 

Says who? And don't say the civil war. The Feds did **** all until South Carolina attacked a Fed military base. The confederacy was conquered, not illegitimate. States can leave, there is no law stating otherwise, the trick is to do it in a way that doesn't provoke a civil war.

 

How does a state do that? For example, let's say California secedes. There are now something like 40 million US citizens living in territory that claims its a foreign country, but the USA doesn't recognize the state of California as an independent nation. It insists that it's still part of the USA. What happens when the new Cali government violates the rights of some of those citizens? The USA begins criminal proceedings against the rights-violators, and sends US Marshalls to arrest the accused. Does Cali let their government officials get arrested by the US Marshalls, or do they do something that provokes a civil war? Alternatively, what happens when some of those US citizens stop paying their taxes. The IRS goes through its process and decides its eventually time to arrest the lawbreakers for tax evasion. What happens when IRS agents show up to seize property and arrest Californians? Does California let them, or does it provoke a civil war?

 

Yet more FLAILING exposed in the content above!

That applied ONLY when running SEPERATELY for VP as opposed to running TOGETHER on a JOINT ticket which BEGAN in 1864!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_mate

Facts matter and it is apparent that it is YOU that hasn't bothered to keep CURRENT with the EC process.

Sad!

 

You're so constitutionally illiterate that it's almost painful to watch. Here, read this and learn something new tonight. It's from the Congressional Research Service, last updated in 2016:

Contingent Election of the President and Vice President by Congress: Perspectives and Contemporary Analysis

That's the current state of the Electoral College process.

 

Oh the IRONY given that you have just ADMITTED to your own "constitutional illiteracy" between these two posts.

You just FLIPFLOPPED from 1804 to 2016 in the space of TWO posts!

That MUST have been PAINFUL for YOU assuming that you were even AWARE of the Cognitive Dissonance that would have caused.

FURTHERMORE you FAILED to INCLUDE this RELEVANT point from your own link.

Your SCENARIO collapses if the GOP LOSES the Senate which is entirely possible given had POORLY your wannabe Fascist-in-Chief is doing in the polls and how appointing a replacement for RGB will HARM the GOP Senate races in November. In that scenario the Senate picks Kamala Harris.

Furthermore your scenario COLLAPSES either way since the HOUSE gets to pick the NEXT POTUS and that will be Biden in a contested election.

 

I think you're having trouble comprehending what's being written to you. There was no flip-flop. I have no "scenario" other than what the Constitution outlines. I'm well aware that it'll be the newly-seated Congress that elects the President and Vice-President if the need for a contingent election arises, and as I said in post #54:

"I'm not making any assumption about who will control the Senate. Right now RCP has it as a toss-up. I'm simply pointing out that in the scenario where the Electoral College is unable to make a selection, and the House doesn't settle on a President, then the Vice-President, selected by the Senate, will take over, not the Speaker, as you don't apparently understand."

I'm not claiming that these rules guarantee Republican control. I'm simply pointing out that you were wrong when you wrote "That scenario makes the House Speaker the de facto POTUS given the line of succession." That's factually untrue. You were (and still are) wrong.

 

Do you understand that in a contingent election, the House votes for President by state delegation? Do you even understand what that phrase means?

 

Nope!

Given your original scenario what I posted is 100% correct and your endless puerile slurs don't alter that fact one iota.

 

PROJECTING again?

Once again you FALLACIOUSLY assume that NOTHING will change between NOW and when the House meets on 1/6/2021.

The current FORECASTS will result in the GOP only having 25 state delegations and it requires 26 in order to have a MAJORITY in order to win a contingent election!

 

Wrong, I'm pointedly NOT making that assumption. I'm simply correcting your misinformation.

And what happens if neither presidential candidate gets a majority in the Electoral College, nor in the House's contingent election? Who takes over as President? You're so close you've practically stepped in it. "C'mon man!"

 

Looks as though Trump is going to lose.

 

Junk polls r junk.

What are your thoughts on secession?

 

The way out is the same as the way in--federal statute.