"A good God wouldn't have a Hell"

Yes, that's true, but only in a way. In one sense, I am just explaining beliefs that could be true about God, which would make all this consistent (going back to the original issue posed in the opening post).

And let's keep in mind, I'm not the one who brought up all these issues about God. That was you all.

 

And what exactly is your point?

I mean, how does that relate to the original issue?

It seems like your argument here is not helping your side.

 

Ignorant... without knowledge.. without facts..

Better. I believe in better.

Ideal without naiveness = better.


-------


My thoughts?

Death and hell...should they have been made? Should i subscribe to its owners? Why would i feel as though They want me there? Even if i was to go there, if there wasnt there, to where would i end up?would i be able to say hello to Them there?

If i was there and said hello to Them, would They throw fire and brimstone at me because I was being nice?


Would it be a 'commandment' to be silent until spoken to? Then, I would be able to 'rebel', AGAIN!!!



Have some of you ever heard testimonies of how Divine intervened in their lives? A person was heading down a head on collision road .. he tells his story of drugs and sex and reckless living... one day he gets injured.. and during this injury he begins to gain understanding.. he begins to see where he was headed... If it wasn't for his injury, he says he might have remained on the same path until the head on collision occurred.


*So, said the psychiatrist... you want to go to hell, huh? Tell me... how was your childhood?

The patient says the childhood was fine...

The doctor asks, 'then why would you want to go to hell'?

The patient sighs. 'Hell, doctor', he says, 'might not be as painful as it is here'.

The doctor examines the patient.. 'Then you might be in 'hell' now'?

'That's not it', says the patient... 'It's, it's just the idea that I have to live a day with only a few cents in my pocket'.

 

The doctor says, 'would you like to know how I became a doctor'?

The patient shrugs his shoulders.. 'sure.. why not', he says.

The doctor continues.. 'I was heading down a head on collision path..... and one day I got injured'....


As the patient was heading out of the doctor's office and waiting room, the secretary asks.. 'did he tell you about his head on collision path he was on'?

Yup..

'We're all wondering if it's true', the secretary says.

*how does a grown man end up being a psychiatrist after having reached a certain age??


next week?
Sure, next week is fine.


If God was Good, why would He allow for questionable psychiatrists?



so the question is not really about how Good God is or isn't. God is True.. God is Who He says He Is. Why would any say He is a liar?


And also please remember... If God has a qualm with you for whatever reason... it's easier to have a friendly conversation or even get upset when you are alone... away from others that can dissuade your understanding.


you gotta love a little.. hate a little.. once in a while make a love a little... that's the story of.. that's the glory of.... love...

You gotta yell a little.. scream a little.. once in a while get really really angry a little... that's the story of.. that's the glory of love.



But woe to the one who needs another nearby to do these things.


My name is David... It is not Delade..

Did not Brett Kavanaugh graduate Cum Laude?

-


The Monk speaks to the Master, 'Master, I must be honest as well... I quit'.

The Master quietly amusing... 'My... how age can age so quickly'..


It is sad when private businesses treat the respectable with disrespect, isn't it?
It is from here where the respectable receive their 'shame'. Either shame or being casted out.


Martin Luther being a good example.


Kicked out of Church first or kicked out of enterprise first? Kicked out of both for speaking The Truth?


The invention of 'need'.


All Noah had to need to do was to build the Ark...

 

Yup, He sure is

God's 12 Biggest Dick Moves in the Old Testament

https://io9.gizmodo.com/gods-12-biggest-dick-moves-in-the-old-testament-1522970429

 

that is like saying

Imagine a jealous boyfriend trying to get a girl to love him, so he doesn't have to lock her in the basement and punish her for the rest of her life

If she chooses not to, and he does not use his power to force her, is it his fault?

the answer is simple.... yes, it's his fault

 

The point which, if I can borrow your line, I've made a couple of times now, including in the rest of the post from which you excerpted the above quote, is that you have for all this time neglected to define any particular set of morals to be used in determining the answer to your thread's question, namely, is the god in question, "good?" If your intention is to come to that determination through an arbitrary set of morals, for example, your own, that makes this entire thread pointless, because you are then only making that determination for yourself and there is no reason to involve any of the rest of us.

The, "way this relates to the original issue," if you're having trouble, "getting it," is that not everyone judges what is GOOD by the same standards! Therefore, w/o defining what standard we shall use, your question has already been answered! Billions of times, in fact. For any known god with a, "Hell," the answer to your question is YES, the god is good, if it is one of the god's believers who is giving the answer (determined by their own morals, which they've taken, nominally, from that God's code) and the answer is, in all liklihood, NO, if it is being given by someone who is NOT an adherent to that particular deity.

Do you finally see how this is, "relevant?" Without an objective measure of, "good--" and this is the reason for all your trouble arriving at a consensus-- you are only answering your thread's question for yourself.

 

Sure, but your hypothetical about how God could be, and whether such a god creating Hell is logical, depends on the definition of God and Hell which you refuse to discuss. As I said, I feel the statement is made in the context of particular images of God and Hell (taking from the mainstream Christian images commonly presented) and in that context, I'd argue the statement is valid. You certainly can't declare the people saying it are wrong by using entirely different definitions. That'd be like saying "1+1=2" is wrong because I'm working in binary.

No, you brought us the issues about God. You can't take a singular element like this and flatly refuse to even acknowledge all of the other aspects that influence or would be influenced by it.

 

Can it be summed up in one simple principle?

If it's not perfect, it's not God. Therefore, it's not worthy of worship.

An entity, an Is, that does not need to be worshiped or obeyed, that has a single, simple principle of justice, and does not express emotion over that justice.

That seems like a strawman. Did I make any mention of blame?

 

I think you need to define your hell a little more specifically and why "many people deserve hell". Seems a little harsh.

 

I explained in this thread: a lot of the misunderstandings about Christianity come from a lack of wisdom about human nature

In fact I already posted that link earlier in this thread. So maybe I'm just go to start ignoring questions when I have to repeat myself over and over again.
(sorry if that sounds harsh, most of that is not directed at you specifically)

 

The simple principle is the statement you just quoted.

If you want a principle that you can fully understand and that will satisfy you, then no, it cannot be summed up in one simple principle.

 

That's a non-sequitur. We are not talking about worship in this thread.

 

Claiming you don't deserve hell implies that you are not to blame for your actions, I would think.

Someone else brought up the free will issue, so I was responding to that.

If it seems like a strawman, perhaps you were ignoring the context in which that statement was made.
That's the problem with having multiple different people discussing multiple different things simultaneously. All the post responses tend to get disconjointed, and it's hard to keep track of what I post is referring to, within the wider discussion, because no one is really keeping track of that specific line of conversation. You can't really respond to one post by only reading what is in that one post.

 

The difference is that person who you're trying to get to change their behavior will actually deserve what happens to them if they do not change.

It would be more apt to compare it to trying to raise a child and make sure they don't grow up to be a criminal or join a gang.

 

just because they did not believe in a Jealous God that goes by the name "Jealous"

what did these children do - not a good God...

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 20:5&version=NIV

"for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+34:14&

"For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:"

 

You ignore my thread.

The issue in your question was already explained.

I'm sick and tired of having to answer the same questions and repeat myself over and over again. I guess this thread is just too long now.

(But that is some of your faults for repeatedly raising up off-topic issues)

 

There is a connection, but it is not a direct cause-effect relationship.

See, you assume A-->B
but in reality it is more like A-->C-->B

That 'C' would be you having sin.

 

the sin of not believing?

 

you're the one that took the topic there, I just replied.... face it, this God does bad things per the bible

this God has a hell, and he is not a good God - which was by the design of the creators of the bible, they needed a God that scared people into believing... a jealous vengeful God

 

The Gnostics beleived that the god of the old testiment was a false god, one of many lesser gods created by the one true god to watch over the universe, and that he grew power hungry and turned against the one true god in order to rule over the earth himself.

They believed this because the laws the god of the old testiment commanded completely contridicted the teachings of christ.

They also believed that Judas Iscariot was Jesus' closest friend, whom he shared the true purpose of his work.

According to the Gnostics. the true god created angels and lower gods to watch over the physical universal, because he could not leave the "imperishable realth" (heaven). They also beleive that the true god created Adamus, the spirit of humanity in his own image, as a pure spiritual being. He tasked a group of angels to create a physical body for Adamus, which because Adam.

According to the Gnostics, Jesus was a prophet of the true god, who taught that salvation came from reconnecting with Adamus, the divine spirit of humanity. Only by embracing our own divinity and accepting that we are gods ourselves, can we return to the imperishable realm to be with the creator.

 

Wow, today is really off-topic.

Seems very few of you have any idea of what being "on-topic" actually means. Or maybe you all are intentionally derailing threads.

Guess what? The topic of this thread isn't the Old Testament, it isn't Jesus, it isn't Gnostics.
So unless you're able to explain how discussing any of that is necessary for discussing the topic of this thread, I'm going to have to ask you to stop.

Yes, well too bad for you, Jesus also taught about hell.
You must not be very familiar with the books in the New Testament if you are trying to distance Jesus from the Old Testament in this thread.
(although maybe we need to have a separate thread on that)

I know, I know, Hell is an uncomfortable subject, and it would feel so much better if there was some way to explain it away.

 

No hell is not an uncomfortable subject to discuss at all, it is quite interesting to see how Hell evolved through various religions from the Greeks, Jews and then Christianity. Bart Erhmans book is a recommended read. Hell is only difficult to discuss if you believe in it, a bit like finding Mordor difficult to discuss if you believe in the Lord of the Rings.

It is far more difficult to discuss the pain and suffering and injustice in the world because that is real.

 

And also when you don't have good answers?

And is that what you're counting on to not be held to account, for ignoring the posts you find problemmatic?

No, you ignore your thread. I noted several times a PRIMARY FLAW w/ your, "method," rec'd a telling response from you, that is, indicating that you see this not as a search for a consensus answer, but as a sort of you against us proposition (perhaps in imitation of the God-image you most admire)--

-- and I replied politely, to the point, & most DEFINITELY, ON THE THREAD'S TOPIC, in post #332. Here is just it's end, to refresh your memory.

So, will you address this, or is the ORIGINATOR of the post not subject to the same rules, & harsh judgements, as the rest of us, "mortals?"

 

I don't believe in a hell made by a good god or a bad god. Hell is where bad people spend time with others who have also sunk that low.