Biden's Tax Whopper

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Bluesguy, Oct 17, 2020.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yep that's what the WSJ calls his statements about his tax plan at his town hall.

    They note he says those making over $400,000 will “pay what they did in the Bush Administration—39.6%.”

    But Bush and the Republicans actually CUT the tax rate from that 39.6% to 35% So that's a whopper. Plus the cut the Obama/Biden 0.9% Medicare surtax.

    They then note the Republicans cut that rate to 37%, yes still over 1/3 of a persons income, and Biden wants to raise that back to the Bush rate and add 1.2% by reinstating the Pease limitations on deductions, another form of surtax and the higher earners.

    See here for an explanation of the Pease limitation.
    "Pease Really Doesn’t Make Sense

    From a tax policy perspective, Pease’s structure makes little sense for two main reasons....."
    https://taxfoundation.org/pease-limitation-itemized-deductions-really-surtax/

    Then he wants to eliminate the earnings subject to Social Security limit, without increasing the resulting benefit to those who would see this huge increase on their contribution to the retirement system. And as the WSJ notes

    "The top marginal rate would rise to 57% including 3.8% in Medicare taxes, and that’s before state taxes that run as high as 13.3% in California."

    So now the federal government taking more than half of a citizens income on earned income.

    But wait!

    He also wants to tax capital gains revenue at the earned income level which would bring that rate to 43.4%, which would top the highest rate on the historical tables. And let's not forget it's not a static model, it's a very dynamic model when you change capgains rates. Increasing caps gains does not translate into and increase in capgains revenues because investors adjust their investing. At Clintons top rate of 29% we collected $66B, a the Gingrich/Kasich 21% we collected $127B, at the Bush/Republican rate we collected $137B.

    So Biden's claims that he going to collect all this additional revenue is another whopper but then is that really his goal. Or is his only concern is to make "fair" and simply just take more of whatever the highest earners earn even if it means less earnings meaning less economic activity, meaning less investment, meaning lower GDP, meaning higher unemployment. But by golly he's gonna really stick it to those evil higher earners.

    "Mr. Biden on Thursday estimated that these increases on high earners would raise $92 billion, but that’s before they put their tax lawyers to work. It’s also not even a modest down payment on his proposed new spending.

    Taxpayers are likely to get the truth about how much Mr. Biden will raise taxes at the same time he’s going to tell us whether he’ll sign legislation letting Democrats pack the Supreme Court—after the election."
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/bidens-tax-whopper-11602888777?mod=opinion_lead_pos2

    We are in need of economic recovery let us not forget the utter failure of the Democrats including Senator Obama and Biden to help mitigate the 2008 recession but to get us into a full recovery. We do NOT need a repeat of that and his drive for these HUGE tax increase is ample evidence of that. When have tax increases and the government taking a huge chunk of capital out of the markets ever gotten the economy out of a recession and into growth?
     
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  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Ha no one can defend his tax plan I see.
     
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  3. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The same failed policies that stunted America's growth for all 8 years he was Vice-President.
     
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump and Bush left the economy worse of them when they got it, Obama left office with the economy doing better than when he got it

    just the reality of it
     
  5. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

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    What did the anti fracking, anti drilling, anti pipeline, anti business president do?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you mean Trump?
     
  7. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

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    Once again, how did the anti fracking, anti drilling, anti pipeline, anti business Obama do it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Democrats including Biden and Obama took back the Congress a year before the recession even began and failed to pass measures to help mitigate the effects and duration and then failed to get us into a full recovery. Obama should be thankful the Republicans took back that power his last years in office. Just the reality of it.

    Now please explain how Bidens massive tax increases on business and investment and yes the middle class will be a boon for the economy
     
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  9. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    It was as high as 77% (1918) - http://forbestadvice.com/Money/Taxe..._Federal_Capital_Gains_Tax_Rates_History.html

    Very interesting. Biden hasn't revealed the details of his plan and how he will accomplish his goals, but here you are, tripping over yourself in a desperate, head-long rush to make him wrong about everything. Objectivity out the window.

    Wow. You must have slept through it and his longest continuous recovery from the depths of the Republican recession we've ever seen.

    1943.

    What I don't understand is why you so gleefully, willingly, fight for the right of the richest, most powerful capitalists to continue to advance their effort to acquire your money and all you've worked for.
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And? Is there a world war going on? Are there the same deductions?

    He has revealed enough but if as you say then why hasn't he, we're less than 3 weeks to the election.

    The Democrats were in charge a year before the recession began and failed to pass measures to help mitigate it's length and depth and then Biden oversaw the WORST recovery in modern history. And what do we need now? Sound economic recovery policies why would you go back to those failed policies?

    There's a world war going on? OK let's increase military spending, one of the few government spending that actually creates something of value, 5 fold if that is what you are advocating. And the max capgains rate then was 25% with an exclusion 50% > 6 months; 25% maximum

    The only time they "acquire" my money is when I purchase a product or service from them. How do they "acquire" your money?

    So instead of having to go years when we were in a massive world war try again when has higher taxes especially on capital led to an economic recovery?
     
  11. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Can't admit you were incorrect?

    HOW he's going to do it sin't as important to me and many others as THAT HE DOES IT. And I know Biden is good for his word. Thus, my taxes aren't going to go up.

    WOW! What world did you live in????? That is not AT ALL what happened!!! Obama and Biden took charge at the end of January 2009. The recession was underway at the end of 2008 and the stock market hit bottom in the first half of 2009. So your statement here is bogus.

    That's always the right wing's "explanation".

    Unless you only care about yourself and no one else, you would understand "you" as "you working stiffs who are not among the top 1%". And to answer your question in that context, IF you are not among the 1% and "only" earn under $200,000/year, and particularly if your own personal income is under $100,000, you would be concerned about the real median income being flat for 40 years while the corporations "we" worked for raked in huge bux for the top 0.1% off our labor. Yeah, I know you'll deny they got rich off our labor, but that argument is so full of holes that anyone can see straight through it. Try me if you like.

    LOL!!! Look at what LOWER taxes have gotten us! Studies show that a dollar of unemployment compensation paid for out of taxpayer revenue, generates about $1.40 in economic benefit when it is spent. Imagine the benefit if higher taxes on the rich were spent on wages for currently-unemployed engineers, electricians, line workers, construction workers and on and on when those dollars create new technology in alternative power and electric vehicle technology.
     
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No I quoted my cite quite correctly, check the link. And the rate in 1918 was not to get us out of an economic downturn.

    How do you know he can do it if you don't know HOW he's going to do it? That's nonsense.

    The one right here where were you? The Democrats including Senators Biden and Obama took back the Congress and balance of power January 2007 a year before the recession. They did nothing to help mitigate first the slowdown and then the length and depth of the recession. And when Biden and Obama moved over to the White House it was 2/3's over and heading to an end finally and ended before any of the failed stimulus had any effect. Then Biden was put in charge and it was the worst economic recovery modern history.

    Facts are pesky things aren't they, hard to refute as you are showing.

    It hasn't been flat for the last 40 years it goes up and down and as I showed up markedly the past decade and was on a strong curve up under the Republicans and Trump until the pandemic. I don't care how much the top 1% earn, it doesn't effect me or concern me and the bigger the economy gets the more global it gets the more our standard of living increases and we spend our money on these new gadgets and services people who are VERY successful will rise to that top and that top will get ever more higher as a sign of a vibrant and growing economy. And if you want part of what a corporation "rakes in" then INVEST in it. I did and now I am retiring on it.

    And those studies are highly contentious and disputed such as how much tax has to be collect from one person to get the $1.00 to the other and what would the value of the first person spending it have been to the economy. But if that is true then let's all go on unemployment and imagine how great the economy will be.
     
  13. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Previous big name Biden supporters (and influencers with a lot of fans) are now saying, "F* That. Vote for Trump," after seeing the Biden tax plan.

    upload_2020-10-19_20-23-6.png

    upload_2020-10-19_20-24-27.png
     
  14. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    You said "He also wants to tax capital gains revenue at the earned income level which would bring that rate to 43.4%, which would top the highest rate on the historical tables." And when I corrected you, you suddenly added "Is there a world war going on?" after making no mention of any condition involving war or anything else. It seems you add new conditions when you find your original statement was wrong. In this case you add a reference to "war".

    You said "He also wants to tax capital gains revenue at the earned income level which would bring that rate to 43.4%, which would top the highest rate on the historical tables." And when I correct you this time, you suddenly now add the question of an "economic downturn" after making no mention of any condition involving economic downturn originally. Again, it seems you add new conditions when you find your original statement was wrong. In this case you add a new reference to "economic downturn".

    The nonsense is in thinking he CAN'T do it since you don't know HOW he would do it.

    Apparently NOT!

    WHOA! HOLD IT! Let me get this straight. You're complaining about Democrats not fixing what your party created when Democrats weren't in power??? YOU and YOUR PARTY created all that, but you want to complain about Dems not fixing it??? No criticism of Bush and Co.??? LOL!!! You have some kinda nerve.

    Now that's some impressive revisionism! BushCo did NOTHING to fix the mess. Like everything else Bush ever touched, he created a disaster and left it for others to clean up. Obama and Biden were deeply worried about the condition of the economy before they took office. The economy hadn't hit bottom yet. It was still plunging and they took immediate action to staunch the hemorrhaging. I didn't approve of their methods, but they stopped a potential banking collapse and stabilized the economy, and it started to improve very soon then. The recovery was a continual uptrend starting from the worst economy since the Great Depression. THAT is what Bush left them. And you say nothing about what the GOP did. You try to blame the whole thing on Dems even though they didn't create it. WOW.

    An unprecedented 8 years ..... --two terms .....--of continually improving economic conditions and you think it was "the worst economic recovery in modern history"???? It started from the worst recession since 1929!! AND REPUBLICANS CREATED IT!!

    Did you oppose the GOP policies that caused the recession? Nope. "Move along. Move along. Nothing to see here."

    Not at all. Look again. I just tore your revisionism to shreds.

    Bullshit.
    https://www.advisorperspectives.com...d-u-s-household-incomes-a-50-year-perspective

    And remember, we're talking about the MEDIAN or "middle quintile".
     
  15. Tahuyaman

    Tahuyaman Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  16. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    Hell, Biden and his doper son could snatch purses live at his rallies and the "mainstream media" would ignore it! Not to mention some here would claim it was actually Russian doppelgangers. LOL
     
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The historical tables I cited. And then you had to go back to WW1.

    \
    That is pretty rational thinking, if he knew how to do it then he would be running on it.


    I was quite straight try addressing it

    The Democrats including Senators Biden and Obama took back the Congress and balance of power January 2007 a year before the recession. There was a strong economy, full employment and record revenues and a paltry $161B deficit. They did nothing to help mitigate first the slowdown and then the length and depth of the recession. And when Biden and Obama moved over to the White House it was 2/3's over and heading to an end finally and ended before any of the failed stimulus had any effect. Then Biden was put in charge and it was the worst economic recovery modern history.


    There wasn't a mess when the Democrats took back the Congress and the ball was in THEIR court to mitigate the slowdown that started and then the recession and then they failed to get us into a full recovery in fact it was the worst in modern history and it was led by Biden. And yes it had hit bottom, the job losses hit bottom the month Obama and Biden moved to the WH had had strongly recovered even before their failed stimulus. We were on the backside of the recession which ended 6 months later.


    A recession which didn't start till a year after they had taken power and the worst recovery in modern history, don't try to shift blame for Democrat policies to the Republicans.

    They didn't cause the recession which didn't even start till a year after they lost power.

    And that claim is about as phony as your defense of the failure of Democrat policies.

    As I said it has gone up and was on a strong increase especially the lower income bracket under Rep/Trump policies.
     
  18. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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  19. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Lame.

    No candidate ever does. They don't lay out the budgets, expenditures, policy changes, cost/benefit analysis, and all the rest of the boring details. You know that. You're just struggling to invent a problem where none exists.
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I linked to the tables to which I was referring, give it up.

    But they do tell us how they are going to do it, Biden doesn't. Biden likes to state outcomes, goals. Yeah we all support a chicken in every pot, the policy issue is how you get it in that pot. That's where Democrats and lefist always fall short. They like to support end results and having "conversations" that lead to nowhere other than them patting themselves on the back because they had "conversations".

    So with the failed economic policies of the Democrats 2007-2015 why would you put them back in charge now when the economy needs to fully recover and get everyone back to work?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Listen pally, your position is deeply flawed from the get-go. You're supporting a politician who says he might not accept the results of the election, who is being referred to as a terrorist for inspiring RW nut jobs to threaten Gretchen Witmer with "citizens' arrest" and a bogus "trial" for treason and a promise to enforce the standard "penalty", who has also gotten his fringe extremist supporters to chant "lock her up" but with no charges to level at her, who has now called for his personal AG to move quickly on charges for Biden but with no alleged crimes involved, ..... --he has become completely unhinged with increasingly insane behavior as the election nears, and he has had his USPS chief, DeJoy, terminate USPS police thus leaving mail carriers and the ballots they will be handling at risk, and you choose to repeat the bullshit claims against Biden and his son in defense of the most insane, criminal, dictator-wannabee we've ever had even as you try so hard to assert that Obama and Biden committed some crime or malfeasance. You gotta be ****ing kidding me.
     
  22. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    For the first time after working for SIX administrations, Dr. Fauci now requires a security team to protect him against Trump's crazies. Gretchen Widmer too! Only because of Trump. And still some actually support the damned criminal. No patriotism there!
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And Biden might not accept them he has an army of lawyers ready, candidates have a right to contest elections ask Al Gore. And no he didn't tell anyone to try and kidnap anyone or engage in anarchy, that would be Biden and Harris and the rest of the Democrat/Leftist. I don't think I have ever seen a mail carrier with an armed escort. And why do you dismiss out of hand the Hunter Biden computer and emails on it?
     
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Did you see Trey Gowdy and his wife attacked and have to have protection now. Senator Grassley? To protect them against Biden/Harris crazies?
     
  25. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

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    You do know welfare checks from the government comes from rich people in the USA correct?
     

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