The Clock is Ticking on the GOP's Aging Grasp on Power

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Derideo_Te, Oct 24, 2020.

  1. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm exactly the voter you're describing above. I voted Biden this time, but I dislike both parties and dislike any extremism, left or right. I think the Dems are also out-of-control with extremist policies, and I especially dislike Kamala Harris, but I had to vote for Biden to try to get rid of Trump (which is the legitimate way; I didn't support the effort to impeach him). I do hope that if Biden wins, he doesn't cede control to the extreme left and doesn't take his victory as a mandate to implement extreme left policies. I'm fairly confident that it won't be the case, and that he'll be a moderate president, if he wins. I can't say the same of Kamala Harris, so I hope that if Biden wins, he remains alive and well for four more years (and no, I do not believe that he is currently demented, and I don't believe that he is corrupt, either; those are talking points and made-up evidence by the Trump campaign at least as far as Joe Biden is concerned; I don't feel as confident about Hunter Biden who is probably indeed a crook, but he's not the one running for office).
     
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  2. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Why do you INSIST upon PROJECTING the fiscal MALFEASANCE policies of the GOP onto those who are EXPOSING the problems and HARM that the Republicans have CAUSED to We the People, Cy?
     
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  3. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not a Democrat, and under no obligation to defend the Democratic Party and no inclination to do so, by the way. I'm an independent, unaffiliated centrist. But I just wanted to tell you, you're out of your mind if you think that only the Democratic Party is responsible for the ruination of the greatest country on Earth in so short a period of time. The G.O.P. and most precisely Trump's new G.O.P. is just as responsible for our decline, in several ways.

    Both parties are terrible, I abhor them both, and we're in terrible shape not just because of only one of them. Oh, and we the people are responsible, too. We've been extremely stupid.

    We're all to blame for our decline: the Dems, the Repubs, and the people.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
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  4. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    The point is to deal with the GLOBAL issues by acting locally.

    Personally I am in the process of going off the grid so that none of my energy comes from fossil sources. 3+ years ago I installed solar hot water and that has already paid for itself. My calculations are telling me that a PV system will pay for itself in 7 years with another 18 years of life before anything needs to be replaced. I am making use of delivery services so as to reduce my own vehicle use to the bare minimum. The shared delivery service means fewer vehicles on the roads.

    While these might be inconsequential on an individual level they combine to have a positive environmental impact as more and more people are do it. Going off the grid is now only half what I was quoted 3 years ago and with a 7 year pay back it makes financial sense to do it now rather than later.

    There are additional environmental savings that are not discussed but all add up. Using my own PV source means fewer fluctuations in the power being used by all of the devices in my house. Cutting out those fluctuations means that the electronics are less stressed which in turn means that the need to replace them stretches onto a longer time frame. Virtually every device now contains electronics of some form or other so reducing the need for replacement means less appliances ending up needing to be either scrapped or recycled. Again on an individual basis it is insignificant but on a combined level it does have a positive environmental impact.

    Then there is the benefit where no longer having to pay utility bills or buy new devices as frequently means that I am better off financially. The cost of those utilities and devices will all increase over time but since my money will still be invested and growing instead of being used to pay those bills I see this as a win-win situation for myself and the environment.

    And then there is the satisfaction of taking a hot shower knowing that the water was heated directly by the sun. It is hard to explain but just knowing that something as mundane as a shower is helping the planet rather than harming it. BTW I recycle my gray water and I have a flourishing garden as a result.
     
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  5. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

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    It would be more impressive to us when you stop posting on a computer/tablet/phone made out of oil..
     
  6. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yep, that's pretty much the way I feel and believe also. I voted for Biden to get rid of Trump. That vote wasn't an endorsement of Democratic Party policies or for their agenda. No way, it was a plain and simple vote against Trump and not for anyone else or for any political party.

    Now the Democratic Party can keep my vote in 2022 and beyond if they moderate their policies to fit the average American, which in my opinion is somewhere in-between the ideologies of the two major parties and not the extreme far left. I believe the Average American is for some of and against others of the Republican Party and against some and for other policies of the Democratic Party. Then there's some they just don't give a darn as which bathroom a transgender can use.

    What I can't stand and what disgusts me is the lock step litmus tests both parties expect their members to follow like mindless robots. It's an all or none approach that has lost 40% of all Americans to the swing voter, independent status as both major parties continue to shrink.
     
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  7. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

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    Thank you for your vote and opinion, so you hated Trump for bringing out the true colors of the left and want politics as usual?
     
  8. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Regarding Hispanics and the growing number of them who are embracing the Republican Party and supporting Trump, I do frankly believe that at least for some of them, it's explained by the psychological mechanism of defense called Identification With The Aggressor. The GOP wants their votes but they have no intention of favoring any of their causes. "You know, those brown people from south of the border... they must be all illegal, anyway." Get to your typical GOP voter, and if they see two Mexican-looking ladies chatting in Spanish at the grocery store, it's guaranteed that the first thing they think about them is "illegal aliens", regardless of the fact that for each Hispanic illegal alien in this country, there are 4 legitimate, legal Hispanics, either American citizens or lawful permanent residents. Still, your typical GOP voter will lump them all under the cloud of suspicion of being illegal aliens.

    So, some of the Hispanics get very irritated with that, and try to join the ranks of the aggressor, to signal that they are different, and true Americans. Well, *I* understand that they *are* true Americans or lawful permanent residents, but a lot of people discriminate against them. Sure, I don't want to be paternalistic, and I do acknowledge that many of them have their own reasons to be Republicans and are independent thinkers perfectly capable of picking a party; they may have religious and conservative family values, may be small business owners who prefer the Republican approach to the economy, etc., but I do believe that some of them are simply identifying with the aggressor.

    I have a true story to tell you.

    I used to have a gardener-landscaper who was a Mexican-born man, legal immigrant, who patiently waited for his opportunity to legally immigrate to the US, and after the required waiting period of five years and after being exemplary as a hardworking, law-abiding family man who paid his taxes, he applied for naturalization and was granted American citizenship. He was very proud of being American. When I hired him I wanted proof of citizenship (I do not hire illegal aliens) and he was extremely proud of his American passport, which he showed me.

    He had a very Hispanic-sounding name, and was short and very brown, with the typical look associated with Mexican natives who are not of Spanish descent.

    Over the years when he worked for me doing various landscaping jobs in my home, I grew fond of him, admiring his work ethics and positive attitude.

    So, at some point I asked him to do a largish project in my backyard, involving a small retaining wall, French drains and a brick patio, etc. He charged me $5,000. He did a great job. Once the job was complete, I wrote him a check for $5,000. He went to my bank's local branch to cash it, as he wanted the money in cash for various reasons.

    Next, I get a call from the bank, saying that they suspected that some illegal alien was defrauding me by presenting a check supposedly written by me, and while the signature matched, they wanted to know if it was stolen or something, and they were retaining the alien there until the matter was clarified. I just said "I'm coming over right now." I rushed there (it's a few blocks from my home) and found my gardener in tears, with two white security guards keeping him there.

    I was furious. Given that I'm a fairly wealthy individual and I keep large investments in that bank, I'm always treated with deference there. So, I asked to speak with the manager; he came immediately, and I asked him why in the hell he was illegally detaining my gardener who was an American citizen trying to cash a legitimate check that he got from me as payment for his honest hard work. The manager profusely apologized... to me. I said, "no, you need to apologize to him, not to me, and by the way, I'd say that apologies are not enough; I'm willing to help him with filing charges against you for illegally detaining him, and I'll help him with suing you for the pain and suffering and humiliation. I'll pay for his lawyer." At this point the manager was pale and sweaty and he did profusely apologize to my gardener.

    I asked my gardener if he wanted to press charges and file a lawsuit, I said I'd help him, serve as witness, and my lawyer would do it at no charge for him; I'd take care of the legal fees if need be. He said that no, he's a humble man and he just wanted to get paid for his work. They cashed his check and I reluctantly left with him, still trying to convince him to do something about it. He continued to softly cry, saying that he never felt so humiliated in his life, that the two guards kept mocking him and saying he was going to prison and would be deported back to Mexico where he belonged. He said that it was not right because he was a honest American citizen, etc. but still, he didn't want all the hassle of a lawsuit.

    That's how we sometimes treat our brothers who are American citizens of Hispanic descent... It's a shame.

    While I abhor illegal immigration, I have absolutely nothing against legal immigrants and naturalized American citizens. I grant them my welcome and my respect. But not everybody treats them with the respect that they deserve.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  9. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with this, 100%. Good post.
     
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  10. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    If you're referring to Joe Biden, fake news. There's not even an investigation by US agencies into said fakeness.
     
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  11. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    What will make it end?

    IMO, as long as the US$ is world's currency, we are ok. When that ends, and it will, then we will be hurting. But until then, the US$ is gold and can borrow/create as much as we want.
    It's one reason to remain a world leader, not what the GOP wants and have us sit out world policies.
     
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  12. Steelandrye

    Steelandrye Banned

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    Yes there is
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My pleasure to continue my rant -

    Worked in enviro engineering racket for a decade - been to conferences .. like you as well . sitting around one of the big round lunch tables - expert of some kind sitting in every other chair round the table -"Bioremediation" conference.. how things degrades in the environment being the entire subject matter.. also there are other events and socializing in general.. groups that spontantously form at the trade/exhibits

    Never - in 20 years - has anyone ever gainsayed the idea that Ocean is the #1 issue - yet it gets little coverage and little attention.

    2/3 - Industrialization - Population growth - both mentioned in Moore's new flick - and about time but, - nail on the head .. yeah .. that flick .. the one that the Dems Demonized -and Michael with it ... although that storm passed quickly and they are kissing cousins once again..

    Little getting done my friend .. and those at the top seem not to understand - or more rather - they are just doing what the political wind would like .. or least paying lip service to that effect. Biden/Obama were famous for blocking pipelines though - this is sad commentary .. but these fellows are not acting alone .. Sugar Daddy is whispering in their ear .. constantly .. and they would not be in the position they are were they not past and proven obedient servants.

    Same with Trumpy .... Wasn't Putin that bailed him out .. that was - Sugar Daddy
    Was not Putin's Son that Ivanka's was shagging - That would be son of SugarDaddy.. next in line to the crown if not mistaken
    Wasn't Putin's foot soldier - the one who actually did the deal for Trump - working for Sugar Daddy - who was appointed Commerce Secretary "Wilbur Ross" - and numerous appointees to be sure Quid Pro Quo ..

    It is tough to say to a bleeding heart - To save the Planet we don't want to industrialize these nations .. these other near 6 Billion people who are not industrialized -

    That we should not be increasing our population in the nation via immigration of those of really low economic satus ... can do it amongst other first world nations - as that does not change the carbon/ocean pollution equation.

    Its when you take someone who is at 1 - and turn them into 36 - or get them half way to the middle - that increases the carbon equation.. and as you have noticed .. this is not a pleasant conversation .. almost sounding borderline eugenics ... although this has nothing to do with genes .. it is more Classist if one would label it. but - it is what it is. this is reality. Its not pretty .. and definitely not PC.

    The extreme left has gone so far off the farm - that Moore is now a flaming Republican by comparison - for speaking the Truth.

    And it is the Planet we are talking about after all .. Should we not at least acknowledge the Science - never mind - as in Covid - "We are doing what Science Tells us" -

    If we had to we could shut off the CO2 tap in relatively short order (dramatically reduce) - wouldn't be pretty but - it could be done.
    What we can't do is filter the oceans - should we hit a tipping - and trying to wrap my mind around adjusting the redox potential - oxygenating the dead zones somehow .. this could be attempted at some point but the cost would be unimaginable .. with all global resources focused.
     
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  14. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is sad and depressing... There is no solution...
     
  15. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I agree with this also. I too voted for Biden but don't like they guy. I figure he's good for one term if he's lucky, then we'll have to find someone else. As far as the parties--I don't know what they've become besides an embarrassment. I never really felt committed to either one and am totally repulsed by the divisive tactics being promoted/used so much. I just hope we can get through all this.
     
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  16. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

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    It's over..

    Trump proved to the country what the liberals where..
     
  17. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Hooray! I'm also 'unaffiliated', finally giving up on the Republican Party after being a member for decades (RINO's became too much to stomach anymore).

    And, I may be "out of my mind", but, NO, I don't blame the Democrat Party exclusively for the decline and forthcoming fall of the United States -- a LOT of that blame (as you should have gathered from the post you replied to) lays at the feet of our wonderous, unconstitutional CENTRAL BANK -- the Federal Reserve System (brought into existence in 1913 by Woodrow Wilson and his gang of "progressive" congressional Democrats).

    By contrast, my criticisms of the Republican Party and Donald Trump have been both probing and frequent in this Forum for well over three years -- especially his boneheaded, total-focus on "stock markets ÜBER ALLES"! :spin:

    But, It doesn't really matter any more... parasitic, "free-stuff" radical Democrats will (WILL) elect Biden and that creature he's running with -- DONE DEAL! And, you'll feel ol' Joe's undying gratitude within a year by being hit with higher utility bills, higher prices for transportation fuel, and increased taxes/'fees' (provided that you're in the 45% of the population that even pays taxes)! But, enjoy the moment, and, by all means -- FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF!:party:

    [​IMG]. "Be happy, Americans! I sure as hell am...." :lol:
     
  18. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fair enough, them.
    I don't really think that Joe will win, though. Polls are notorious for undercounting Trump voters given that culturally Trump voters are not even likely to be willing to respond to pollsters.
    Joe will win the popular vote, but I think he'll end up losing Pennsylvania and Florida which will make his path to 270 very complicated.
    If I pay taxes? Yes, I do. Trump's tax cuts saved me $20,000 in taxes, this year. So, I do prefer to see Trump kicked out of the WH for other reasons (as a healthcare professional, I think that he sucks at healthcare and mismanaged the pandemic, which ended up pissing me off; and then in his latest rally he was mocking doctors and falsely accusing us of inflating the Covid deaths for money which is entirely preposterous, as I explained in detail in a recent post, so I'm sick and tired of Trump), but if he is re-elected at least I'll continue to enjoy lower taxes.
     
  19. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I want sane politics, common sense politics, a return to normalcy. We don't have that with Trump.
     
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  20. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I totally agree. This era of modern politics of polarization, mega, ultra high partisanship has to end. Will it, I don't know, but somehow I feel the future of America as a nation, for all Americans, American as a whole is in utter danger unless this ear of modern politics comes to a quick end.
     
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  21. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Ooh! You stand to lose a lot more in tax advantages than me. Trump's big tax 'reform' saved me about $1,000 -- BUT, his tireless efforts to crush interest rates down to ZERO cost me about $5,000! I don't gamble in Wall Street Casinos!

    I know that Biden isn't going to do anything to lobby the Federal Reserve into strengthening the American Dollar by increasing interest rates to a point that makes sense (at least 4% - 5%), so, there's no benefit in having Biden as president for me or anyone else who actually puts money into savings accounts. And, because I'm not on a 'welfare gravy train', and don't get 'subsidies' of any kind, the Democrat Party has absolutely nothing of interest for me (and probably not for millions of other 'Baby-Boomers').

    To sum it all up -- an unexpected Trump victory for me means 'the lesser-of-two-evils'. No big thrill, but at least not an unmitigated catastrophe!

    The anticipated Biden victory, however, means that Moscow, Beijing, and American welfare recipients will be very happy -- even though nobody else in the United States gets anything but higher taxes, more fees, and eventual higher prices for everything, along with a lot more government regulation, mandates, and liberal top-down dogma....

    [​IMG]. "Look! America is killing itself! Quick... order another round of drinks -- I'M BUYING!" :banana:
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
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  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know .. I apologize. There is solution.. but it is not the direction the mob is running - at least not yet.

    But time is short - and I am not talking "CO2" - Need to fix that too .. but - The calculations for climate are like . this might happen 30 years down the road (albeit these timelines keep getting shorter and I would argue we are already experiencing some shifts)

    The Oceans we are measuring things not 30 years .. nor using predictive models .. but "here is the measurement" We identified this many dead zones of x volume .. now there is this many "of the one's we know" .. which only makes the number uglier.

    Have you not been to Mexico or the carribean or Florida .. and seen this Sargassum stuff ? Its gross .. didn't want to swim in the water .. smells like H2S .. has grown in an anaerobic environment. Its like "The Blob" .. old 40's/50's monster movies

    When is the last time you heard someone in the media talking seriously about the enviro impact of population Growth ? .. in passing perhaps on a rare day if you are extremely lucky .. Page 82 in the Corner of the Sunday Times. .. or on the front page of Science books that geeks like me read.

    Yeah we can feed them - the problem is the byproducts of their consumption -- the waste . power usage - carbon footprint and so on.

    We know the first world is decreasing in population - were it not for immigration ... just not replacing ourselves .. which is a good thing.

    That said .. there are murmerings .. Moore's flick being one of them. There are those that know what I am telling you .. one Senator - forgot his name unfortunately .. Red .. was making the exact same pipeline argument I was.. was very cool .. he was like repeating the shtick I have been chanting for years .. I work in this industry now .. microbio corrosion being an issue do take that conflict of interest for what you may :)

    So there are some winds .. and look for these to pick up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
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  23. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

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    Ok , so who will join me for a beer?
     
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  24. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Totally agree. I've said before that we're in a new era where technology allows misinformation to spread faster than accurate info. There is a lot of science that not only explains how it works, but teaches how to do it. It's a profitable business and it gets votes. The most pathetic thing is those who are certain that they only get info from good sources are the one's most likely to fall for the fake stuff.
     
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  25. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I hear you and these are some of the reasons why for the longest time I considered voting for Trump. Call me a one-issue voter if you will but the public health / healthcare part made it impossible for me to vote for Trump. I'm just hoping for a Biden win but with the Senate remaining with the GOP so that Biden can't go overboard with far left policies. Then in 4 years we vote Biden out.

    Frankly after a long time believing that the polls this time are accurate due to fine-tuned methodology, I'm no longer certain of that due to the effect I've mentioned (Trump voters being unlikely to respond to posters). I think Florida and Pennsylvania are within Trump's reach and if he wins both, Biden is in trouble. It seems like minority vote in Florida has been sluggish, and Biden managed to piss off Pennsylvania employees of the shale gas industry plus the riots in Philadelphia continue, and that's not good for Biden; so, we'll see.
     

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