Please explain to an outsider...why Trump?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Emma82, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    She was talking about the States and she mistakenly believes they and their governors report to the President and he leads them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And he listened to his business experts, like listening to the scientist. Let's hope Biden does the same.
     
  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And got MORE votes than any presidential candidate in history other than Biden.
     
  4. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What has he done?

    He has presided over a record breaking employment boom.
    The U.S. has become energy independent and a net exporter of energy on his watch.
    He has negotiated trade deals with Canada and Mexico.
    A "Phase 1" trade deal was signed last January with China.
    He has gotten Mexico to agree to keep immigrants on their side of the border pending immigration hearings in the U.S.
    He has tried to improve border security.
    He has defeated ISIS in Iraq and Syria. He has killed their leader. He has also killed several top Al Qaeda leaders on his watch.
    He is negotiating with the Afghan taliban in an effort to get our troops out of there finally.
    He has gotten NATO countries to better support their own defense.
    He has not initiated any new wars.
    He has moved our embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.
    He has helped work out peace treaties between Israel and multiple muslim countries in the mideast.
    His own personal engagement with the North Korean leader has greatly reduced tension between North Korea and the U.S.
    He has stood strong for law and order.
    He has appointed 3 textualist judges to the Supreme Court.
    He is against kneeling during the national anthem.
    He supports the 2nd Amendment.

    There are about 500 U.S. troops still in Syria - sort of an insurance policy against aggression against the Kurds. I don't especially like that mission, but I understand it. But Hillary Clinton promised to deepen our involvement in the Syrian civil war, including the imposition of "no fly" zones over her favored rebels, thus putting the U.S. in direct conflict with Russia. President Trump, on the other hand, is not interested in doing that foolish thing.

    Tax policy is, in the final analysis, dictated by Congress, not a President. Everyone has their own opinion on tax policy, and the tax bill Trump signed, in my opinion, had some good and some bad about it.

    So you asked; there's my answer.
     
  5. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much an extension of what Biden was doing and got no credit from the Orange Oaf.

    8427EF8D-7899-479F-BDD6-2D1009267D5B.jpeg
    The shale boom preceded his term.
    He got a auto deal with Mexico and that's about it. Canada was a saw-off.
    IOW, the renewed sale of some farm products and that's about it.
    The border is shut anyway.
    He could have stepped up enforcement against American businesses hiring illegals. Big hat, no cattle.
    It all started--too late, IMO--before Trump's term.
    They're still there.
    Per an understanding reached with NATO by Obama in 2014.
    Nor did Obama--well, unless you want to count Libya.
    A bad idea.
    Small countries caught between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Not a big deal compared to deals with Jordan and Egypt negotiated by Democratic Administrations.
    :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
    Except when the law applies to him.
    He continued the sad process begun years decades ago of politicizing SCOTUS.
    Red meat BS.
    So, what have Democrats done against it?

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    He could have refused to give 85% of the personal tax cut to people making $400,000 a year, keeping his promise.
    He did very little and that's probably why economic growth in his first three years was almost identical to Obama's last three years.

    A32CE2D5-4912-40F8-9911-ED60751F8DE0.jpeg

    He screwed up our COVID-19 response and got the boot. Good riddance.

    94C7C096-F493-4A63-B58B-5C897CB74CBA.jpeg
     
  6. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    The sane thing to do would be eliminating any middleman, and address the driving factors of the costs. Why pay administrative people for deciding if a person is worthy of a service that they and their doctor feel is necessary, and then have other people pay for it?

    A medial voucher requires someone to fund the voucher. How about reducing the actual costs of healthCARE rather than the 'inflate and bill the insurance' program that currently tries to call it's self health care?

    I'm pretty sure most people know what a library is, what the internet is, what auditing community college courses is, what mentoring is, what education outreach programs are. What cannot be taught, what cannot be gift wrapped in other people's money is the desire to learn.
     
  7. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Two different issues. Of course, we should drive down costs, but we don't necessarily cut delivery costs best, or even get the best medical outcomes, by returning to an era of major medical insurance.
    Expensive treatments have gatekeepers. How do you want rationing to work?
    Government provides the voucher. The program overhead to deliver the voucher is very small. The voucher puts a floor under what people spend on healthcare. Society has an interest in making that choice for all of us given the cost of a large number of low-income people choosing to use their resources on other budget choices.
    Your reaction is typical of those capable of teaching themselves new skills.

    I spent years teaching adults how to educate themselves in the use of computer technology. Many people don't know how to learn.
     
  8. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    So driving up costs by inserting middlemen, is beneficial how? Insurance is a method of payment, nothing more. Major Medical taught people what insurance was actually for, and it is a known fact when people have to consider the cost of something, they pay attention to what is the cause, the cost, and the probable outcome of that treatment.

    Expensive treatments ARE major medical. That's what most High Deductible/Catastrophic plans were all about. Why should life saving treatments be rationed?

    So once again, others must pay (the government technically does not fund a voucher, taxpayers do) for those that can't or won't contribute, and knowing just how efficiently the government functions, I would be interested in seeing what 'very small' actually is. How about an expanded Medicaid for the low/no income group, and let the rest function with insurance they actually need or want. I pay for as much of my healthcare with cash, and receive a discount for doing so. The facility/practitioner gets paid immediately, doesn't have to jump through the insurance hoops, and I receive the care I need.

    I dislike school environments, but I've done what I had to do to move forward. There were a number of other people doing the same thing, all ages, backgrounds taking aptitude tests. I headed for something really wasn't appealing, but would provide a base that I could expand upon. There are enough basic courses to get virtually anyone at least moving in the right direction, including vo-tech. If you (generic) stop expecting people to be able to do something, eventually they won't do it. No doubt some need a push or a hand, but playing to the lowest common denominator will lower the ability of all. For reference, think back to high school. There were always remedial classes in one subject or another. You don't weigh down those who can move forward, for those who don't.
     
  9. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Aren't you assuming the only solution to pay-as-you-go would add overhead? Perhaps a voucher would buy comprehensive medical care.
    Insurance is also a guarantee against a major loss.
    What is gained by sick people being told the cost of restoring their health when most are hardly in a position to shop their treatment?
    Life-saving treatments are rationed anyway.
    Social Security is less than 2% of benefits. (You're going to pay for them, one way or the other.)
    It may not in our collective best interest to have people choosing to skimp on basic health care.
    That's nice for you, but it doesn't work well for low- and middle-income wage earners.
    You shouldn't judge by your personal experience.
    They were never expected to produce. That's why hundreds line up for a handful of jobs.
    Remedial classes are part of the problem.
     
  10. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    So the people administering ANY type of 'collective payment (insurance companies, government entities et al) are working for free? The facility, the utilities, the computers, don't cost a thing?

    Not if you look at the details. When you say 'major loss', I will have to guess that you mean financial expense. It's not a 'loss' if you receive a service that you are paying for, and insurance doesn't actually prevent the situation. It is a payment mechanism.

    It's called making a choice. Is it the only method of restoring their 'health'? There is more than one path, and not all paths are dedicated to the medical industry.

    if you mean 'rationed' based on expectation of extension of quality life, that sometimes exists, if you rely solely upon the insurance complex to make you medical decisions for you.

    Please clarify.

    How do you feel about sliding scale clinics? I've brought it up repeatedly, and if you have read 'the majority' of my posts, you've seen my reference to it.

    I am middle income.

    I don't judge. I recommend, I suggest, I counsel. Stating facts that you can't teach the desire to improve one's life is not judgement, it is a statement of fact.

    That sounds like an issue you need to work out on your own. Continuing to think that certain people other than the truly disabled were never expected to produce is pretty damning evidence of low expectations.

    No, they aren't. Not everyone learns at the same speed, and some have issues in particular areas. Throwing them into an average class when such hinderances exist is detrimental to those who are average, and down right harmful to those who cannot keep up. They have advanced classes for those who move faster than average. Are those part of the problem also?
     
  11. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    A comprehensive healthcare plan might actually reduce the overhead associated with repeated negotiations with individual providers, and it could involve a lot more preventative care. For example, some HMOs have been giving smokers and former smokers annual CT lung scans.
    All I need to say ... my wife and I have never had a dental plan because we self-insure.
    Are we talking about the vast majority of Americans or a small subgroup?
    Consider the cure for Hep C.
    Poor people show up for charity--for instance, Medicaid for indigents needing skilled nursing care.
    Haven't seen it.
    Really? A corporate controller's salary is middle income? :roll:
    I taught adults motivated to take a class to improve their situation and many of them were people I described who don't have the skills to teach themselves.
    No, its evidence of what I saw in schools and why I support school vouchers.
    Yes, they are.

    We had students who had been in remedial math classes before they came to us. We got all of the "modified" students up to speed and we no longer had remedial classes after their first year in the school. The principal had a school motto, "Success through effort."
    Good teachers accommodate different skills and interests.

    I had high school computer students who were challenged by computer programming in high-level languages and others who I taught to program in assembly language. Often, they were all in one class.
     
  12. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    There has not been a day go by since Dirty Donald announced he was running for president that I have not wondered how anyone could be stupid enough to vote for the ego maniacal liar, but they did ??? And even now after 4 years of his self loving lying and boasting that everything he does is the greatest ever over 70 million STILL voted for him ?? There is no way I can account for the number of people that cannot see right through his total bullshit. His job creation was GROSSLY overblown the day he took over on Jan. 20,2017 the unemployment rate was 4.7% at the height of employment it temporarily was cut to 3.4%, a reduction of 1.3% that lasted a very short time, Obama did much better, created far more jobs.
     
  13. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I find it amusing that I have no problem understanding why people voted for Obama or Hillary (or even Biden) but hardly anyone on the left has any capacity to understand the right and why it votes the way it does. And as I've learned on this forum, explaining does no good. The only answers you guys are interested in are self serving ones.
     

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