OMG The UK has over 35,000 cases today

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by alexa, Dec 17, 2020.

  1. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lots of people say lots of things about Marx. I have only read Marx's humanistic writings. He was very influenced by Rousseau but there was nothing as you say there, just a mind who saw the potential of people. Very much the opposite of a mind as you say who would support violence against the freedom of the individual. 'Man is born free but everywhere he is in chains' Rousseau, Marx's major inspiration.

    It was about the workers taking over the tools of production but it happened where the countries had not got to this stage. Lennin knew that what he was doing was not Marxism. I could provide you with you tube or documentaries which say the opposite of you.

    Just out of interest do you believe that Neo Liberalism gives us freedom?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
  2. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Of course, I'm an advocate of economic liberalism. The capitalist economic system corresponds to human nature. There is nothing better yet. Communism failed miserably in many countries.
     
  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, it would make sense that they would believe that they could only take over these tools of production by violence. They would not expect the Capitalists to give them it. If it were possible to have a left wing Government it would be possible for the Government to do this on a loan for the workers which would mean it could be done without violence. That is what our last Labour Government intended doing if it got into power. So in todays world we have moved nearer a place where we could do that without violence.

    So to return to what I said. I do not believe Marx was evil. I believe how it has been put in has not been Marxism. I see the problem being as based particularly on 'to each according to his need' but also most certainly on his other humanistic writings that he had a spiritual leaning but that you cannot do spirituality by force. He may have not known that. It simply is impossible so I still believe what I said before which was that Marx had a spiritual leaning but that we were not ready for it then and are not ready for it now. A spiritual world would be much like his humanistic writings and aspirations.

    You need also to remember that at that time the masses of people were often near starvation with basically no rights at all and subject to very harsh treatment.
     
  4. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Neo Liberalism only offers freedom to those who already have or are well backed to use their money without restrictions or responsibility. And that is only for the very rich. It gives those with money the freedom to build up Monopoles and Corporate Power something very much involved in the Nazi Germany you claim not to like and also very much part of the reason why we understood after WW2 that we did need to put restrictions on Capital. Neo Liberalism leads to inequality and we were in much the situation as we are now prior to WW2. It has been failing since 2008 like it did then leaving a very few people with almost all the money and with that the power to rule countries. The US is ruled by Oligarchs because they are the people who finance the Politicians and they are the people the Politicians serve. It is the same in Britian. Political Theorists now describe how the West has been moving in recent decades as either a new form of Despotism or a new form of Feudalism. It is because of this that you have neo nazis on the go again. Neo Liberalism has reached the point where it will not survive without another war. Covid may hide that and allow it to deceive the people for a bit longer but we already see the rise in the far right in the US and other countries like Germany. Seems this time they are working together.

    From the 70's and the birth of Neo Liberalism, we have seen a massive transfer of wealth from the bottom 90% who are workers to the top 10% but to all but the top 1% the increase in wealth is not that great.

    America's 1% Has Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90% | Time

    Where is their freedom? One of the main problems with this form of Capitalism, Neo Liberalism, which does by the way now require tax subsidies is that it destroys democracy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To get this thread back on topic and where it was when it went off, my own daughter last night told me she thought that there was no new strain at all and that the Government was just saying this because it was getting out of control because people were not taking proper safety precautions! She trusts Nicola so when I told her that London had had very few cases just four weeks ago and now was seemingly the centre of this, she immidiately pulled back and said that Nicola had said that as well, so the new strain must be true. I am sure this temporary change in thought for her which in others could result in them building up resentment to what the Government was doing and not trusting or believing them was caused because a family member who would have been coming up from England for Christmas no longer can in much the same way as some of those joining marches with neo fascists in Germany who were doing it because they were unable to visit their loved ones in care homes for so long and were motivated by their concern for them and their, correct I think view, that it would have been possible to have put in the work so that they could safely visit their relatives who may not even be here when this pandemic is eventually sorted. See post 25 for information on the motley crew of people who have come together in Germany to form "Querdenker". Possibly the one thing which brings them together is lack of trust in the political areana.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As countries across Europe understandably stop civilians travel to and from the UK, Italy has acknowledged finding its first case of the new strain.
     
  7. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Looks like not getting goods may not wait until the 1st of Jan

    New: France bans ALL travel from the UK - including truck and lorry drivers (msn.com)
     
  8. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Medway Towns are now twinned with Wuhan....yippee.....welcome to Tier 4....

    Got my next gen strain of the Virus on order from my supplier in China...

    upload_2020-12-22_23-36-5.png

    :)
     
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  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  10. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  11. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    The new oxford vaccine should be rolling out soon with enough doses to cover everybody in England. That should help. Until then, a hard lock down for a few weeks not the worst of ideas out there.
     
  12. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I hear they are going to wait three months before they give the second dose so that more people can get some immunity. That does give some hope, It would be deeply concerning without that.
     
  13. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    There is some concern that healthcare workers and the elderly could still be at great risk since the first dose of the Oxford vaccine is only given at half-strength to begin with. We'll see. It is the vaccine I currently have the most confidence in and suspect it will drive Pfizer and Moderna out of the market if it is effective. Cheaper to manufacture, easier to deliver and store, and has a long shelf-life in normal fridge temperatures.
     
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  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I did wonder if giving the one dose has been tested to be effective for three months. Is this the one that they accidentally gave only have the dose to some people and discovered it worked better?
     
  15. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    More or less. It wasn't that they were accidentally giving a half dose. The company they contracted with to manufacture the test lots had quality control issues and accidentally manufactured a bunch of half-strength and double-strength batches. It threw the research off and they had to stop and figure what the hell was going on.
     
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  16. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Scotland is apparently going into complete lockdown from midnight. Although thankfully we have had nothing like the cases in England, yesterday there was almost 2,500 new cases and half of those were the New Strain. Sturgeon believes it is a race against time, Get enough people vaccinated while keeping the new strain as contained as possible.

    Scotland to go into full lockdown at midnight, Sturgeon announces (msn.com)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
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  17. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People will know that we are now up to over 60,000 cases a day and around 1000 deaths...so now
    cont'd 'Major incident' declared in London due to hospital strain caused by COVID (msn.com)

    The numbers are still going up

    UK today 68,053 new cases and 1,325 deaths

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    (and my daughter tells me the real numbers are far higher than worldometers)

    There was a guy this morning suggesting we will be at 100,000 deaths by the end of January and he could well be right. It may even be more.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
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  18. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    London should do like the US and monetize care. Sell the beds to the highest bidders. That'll keep hospitals at capacity.
     
  19. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The UK's not doing so bad. Better than 11 EU member states in terms of cases per million.

    It's an unfortunate situation we find ourselves in. Unfortunately the universe is not made for humans and sometimes disastrous **** happens.
     
  20. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Idiotic post.

    Well you can clap how the UK is doing with steadily rising deaths per day, over 1,300 yesterday. Clearly you know nothing about it. The UK is where one new strain started and that coupled with people no longer taking protocol seriously is causing the NHS service to become overwhelmed. You want the UK to completely fold.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
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  21. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    My brother just arrived in London to do a PhD over 3 years. From the perspective of the people that he talks to it's appalling catch-up leadership plus a general malaise possibly related to Brexit that have led to a kind of despair and indifference.

    Pick your leaders wisely.
     
  22. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes well we believe that all human beings have the right to medical care. We do not believe that a person has more right to life because they have a bigger bank account.
     
  23. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's worth noting that steadypie comes from Western Australia where they took the most extreme action against covid possible, completely closing the borders with Australia and the world. How's that for irony.
     
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  24. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't want the UK to completely fold, but they are not doing bad relative to the rest of Europe. They are the middle of the pack.
     
  25. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are. Massively. You are not up to speed. I do not know which 11 countries have a greater death per million if that is so but your arguement is ridiculous in the current situation as it is not dealing with a situation that is current and even if the rest of Europe then gets it worse it will not make any difference if UK medical systems close. This is not a bloody competition.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021

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