The President's Fraud Allegations, the list

Here are the claims President Trump makes, all on his capitol hill address. True, false, debunked?

Note: If the media says it's all false, that means nothing, no-one trusts them.

Question, why is anyone against an audit? President Trump and many congress people have never stated they just want to overturn election and go against the people, they just want an audit so American people are confident that these irregularities and violations didn't result in fraud that may have altered result.

First and foremost, this speech was far from a speech that can be seen as inciting violence. In summary, the president spent around 30 mins stating he believes there was fraud, went after media, big tech (as he always does), asked Mike Pence to step up and explicitly stated he wants his supporters to and i quote: "march peacefully and patriotically". He took some jabs at Biden, Brian Kemp and criticized Bill Barr and Supreme court justices. He then goes on to lay the case that there was fraud, this was about 45 mins where he simply enumerated the irregularities/violations. He then ended with a few minutes once again criticizing media, big tech. This was a pretty standard Trump speech and most telling is how he actually demanded a 'peaceful' protest.

FRAUD CLAIMS:

President Trump claims states certified election results based on misiformation and demanded congress send it back to re-certification, after all the new information regarding election irregularities is now known. I'm not an expert on any of this, have to read up on it but it has been stated president misled his supporters that this was even possible.

One of the president's assertions is that local and state officials illegally made changes to election process as per the law and constitution, only state legislature can make changes.

state by state claims:

PA.

• Secretary of state illegally abolished signature verification requirements 11 days before election.
• 200,000 more ballots cast than registered voters
• 8,000 voters with IDs of dead people
• 14,000 votes from out of state people
• > 10,000 votes illegally counted after election day
• 60,000 ballots were supposedly returned before they were mailed out
• 25,000 requested in a batch by nursing home, he claims this is illegal and considered ballot harvesting
• PA officials released count of absentee ballots sent out, then changed it by +400,000, day after election

MI.

• Sec of state flooded state with mail in ballots in violation of state law
• 17,000 votes with IDs of dead people
• Wayne County. 174,000 votes that can't be linked to registered voters
• In Detroit, 139% turnout, of registered voters
• Election Official testified under penalty of crime, that she was told to not ask for voter ID if democrat voter
• Election official testified that she was asked to back date ballots
• In Detroit, after it was announced all votes had been counted, 10s of thousands arrived without required envelopes, most democrat votes
• In early am hours, it was reported there were 134,000 votes counted, 94% for Biden
• Dominion voting systems. 6,000 switched from Trump to Biden

WI.

• Democratic cities deployed 500 unmanned, unsecured drop boxes. 91,000 unlawful votes as a result
• 170,000 absentee ballots counted w/o an application, unlawful he claims (most in places like Milwaukee, heavily democratic).
• in madison, 17,000 in 'human' drop boxes, unsecured ballots put in duffle bags, park benches in 'defiance of state legislature'

GA.

• Democrats reached a settlement agreement to weaken signature verification process, Trump claims this is unconstitutional. There were attempts to verify signatures in Fulton County, it was opposed
• Absentee rejection rate was 10 times lower than it had been previously, even with record # of mail in ballots and # of votes. If the same rejection rate would've been applied, per historical rates, approx 45,000 votes would've been rejected, many in democratic areas. In 48 counties, 0 ballots were rejected.
• In Fulton county, republican observers asked to leave, with the excuse being there was a pipe burst. Within this time, officials resumed counts, unsupervised, and counted tens of thousands of votes, there was a mysterious 100k vote dump where Biden got almost all votes.
• 5 appeals were rejected for independent audit of signatures in Fulton county
• 10,000 votes with ID of dead people
• 2,500 incarcerated felon votes, people who should not be able to vote
• 4,500 voters whom were not on state voter rolls
• 18,000 votes with vacant addresses listed
• 88k ballots where registration date back dated illegally
• 66,000 votes of under age people
• State senator drafted a letter claiming dominion voting systems had 93% error rate in Fulton county
• 106k ballots adjudicated, out of 113k ballots

AZ

• 36,000 votes of non-citizens
• 2,000 ballots returned w/o address
• 22k ballots returned before they were mailed
• 11,000 more votes than registered voters
• 150,000 registered after deadline
• 103k electronic adjudications w/o republican observers

NV

• Accuracy setting on signature verification lowered, impacting approx 130,000 votes
• 42,000 double counted
• 1,500 votes with IDs of dead people
• 8,000 ballots with no address

 

Here's a functioning adult for you to model your behavior on...

 

I bet you couldn't name one proven "dead voter" let alone 10.

 

I think we need to start moving these threads to the conspiracy theory section where they belong. They have been indulged well beyond their shelf life.

 

that's all you got? aww...

 

So many allegations but you haven't provided any proof.

Oh and those affidavits are worth less than toilet paper.

 

I tried to take this stuff with consideration a few weeks ago, but now that people have died it's getting sad, pathetic and pathological.

The harder you cling to your make-believe reality, the more brutal the fall.

 

Are you insane?

IDs of dead people? Dead people? Are you shameless?

 

This crap isn't funny anymore. 1 cop dead and 50 injured. Friggin Trump supporters and Antifa - different sides of the same ****ing coin. Cop killers.

 

and by the way, i don't disagree with Mcconnell. I do find it funny how some who have berated him and called him every name in the book, now praise him.

But really, my post was to summarize the allegations by the president and put things into context.

But really it's about summarizing the violations and irregularities that Trump is angry about. Some c

The fact is that there are a lot of concerns with how state and local officials changed rules, against long standing constitutional standards. The push by democrats to weaken things like signature verification, need for IDs etc... plus some of the other irregularities and suspicious behavior, should give everyone pause. This could go against democrats in the future.. We need to ensure we go to great lengths to verify votes, not the opposite, which is the direction in which democrats seem to be headed.

but regarding Mcconnell, i actually agree with him. I can see why Trump is angry about all of these violations and irregularities (which for sure were greater than previous years given unique nature of this election with Covid and record # of mail in ballots) but the president was allowed to contest things, the courts ruled, states certified and it was not up to congress to send back.

but remember, there is no question that this election was like no other, given Covid, many things were different. There are valid concerns on the president's side. To be quite frank, what i really want all of this to lead to is to an overhaul of election process across states. It doesn't make any sense to me how in some states, it is a mess and in others, quite clean, like in Florida. Why did PA, MI, GA, WI have so many problems and florida was smooth? and i do not understand how ANYONE would want to weaken the verification of signatures, make voting process less secure or lower standards for ID requirements. It is at the very least, suspicious..

 

Bull crap "suspicions" got a cop killed and 50 injured. It's not a game, dude.

 

Ok, I'm glad you agree with Mitch... On the second question might I suggest there were "problems" reported in these electorates because the results were close - therefore there was a political incentive to find "problems". I'm sure I'm not the only person who has mentioned this.

Which brings me to my main point that you're going to get less and less indulgence here regarding wild election rigged claims. I think a lot of the most vociferous Trump supporters need to decide whether they are going to continue to self-radicalise or come back to sober reality and put in some honest time and reflection to help build a more inclusive and acceptable GOP for the future American voter. THAT is your path forward from here on.

 

@Mike12 Well, you have at least taken a decent amount of effort into compiling the list for your OP. I must commend you for taking the time to do that.

There are so wearingly many of them that the point is to distract you by their sheer volume and expect that you are unwilling to follow up on them. By sowing distrust in any outlets that might bother to do the work for you (fact checkers / media / officials), it is all the easier to convince the ardent follower of said claims. After all, who has the time to research each of these?

Well, I've wasted some 30 hours or so to do that on various claims to verify their voracity. So, let's see how many specific claims from your list I've already investigated.

Come on, that one's just stupidly easy. Just download the excel sheet from the official PA election site and check it against the total votes cast:

https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElecti...tatistics/Pages/VotingElectionStatistics.aspx

9M registered voters vs some 6.8M ballots cast.

23,305 by my count. Probably just a clerical thing would be my guess. Unlikely related to fraud, and if you're trying to commit fraud, how do you make that mistake? Haven't looked at it since.

Was not even argued in the WI SCOTUS case. If the campaign had a problem, perhaps they should have bothered to raise it. Ultimately the same tools were made available to voters of each party well in advance. It is not evidence of fraud and up to the state to determine how to handle.

100% horse manure. The claim is that an absentee request form used in 11 previous elections for over a decade is not a request form. It is not argued even in the dissent of the WI SCOTUS ruling.

As with drop boxes, should have bothered to raise objections to it before the election. Not after. Event was publicized well in advance. As with drop boxes, up to the state if they want to allow them in the future.

Pipe burst in the morning. Observers left at night. They were not asked to leave. Read their affidavits.

Haven't investigated this one. But GA state law does not entitle challengers to challenge the signature. Just the qualification of the voter.

Haven't heard this specific one, but given the error rate, sounds exactly like the same problem with the similar Michigan claim. In the MI claim, they say the error rate exceeds what is acceptable. But the way they calculate their error rate is not the same way the error rate is supposed to be as described in the document they link to.

For the rest of the GA claims, Sterling put out a video debunking most of them recently.

Given that his slogan is "stop the steal". Given that he stated well ahead of the election that it would be rigged - "that's the only way we can lose". Given that he continues to claim "we won in a historic landslide", the notion that he has been asking and prepping his base for anything less than an alternative outcome is disconnected from reality. His public comments do not attempt to instill faith in the election. They are designed to create mistrust and outrage that the election was stolen. The message is, we need to stop the steal before they take our country. And when those supporters got to capital hill and found out that the certification was not going to be stopped, is it any wonder that violence broke out?

Mostly you have a warped perception that it did not go smoothly in the states at issue because the POTUS won FL by a wide enough margin that it was called early, so he and GOP allies did not bother filing tons of frivolous suits. Had he lost, you would no doubt also think it has tons of problems.

Secondarily, different voting laws for different states. PA, MI, WI do not have formal early in person voting like GA and FL. In PA specifically they were made to wait (I believe by state legislature) until after election day voting was over to even start processing mail ballots. Had they a strong tradition of early in person voting like FL and NC, it would have cut down significantly on the absentee mail ballots. Moreover, had they the rules to start processing mail ballots early before election day (like FL and NC do), they would have gotten done with them much earlier. Both FL and NC can start before election day. Hence they were done by election day. GA, WI, MI, PA must start on election day.

I guarantee you, had Trump lost NC or FL, the argument would be that they were processing mail ballots without oversight, so they should all be tossed. But he didn't. So your perception is that those were just fine. And this is despite NC rule change to allow counting mail ballots received up to 9 days after election if postmarked by election.

At any rate, here is my challenge to you. If you want to convince anyone that it is a worthwhile endeavor to make changes to secure elections, do your own work. You mistrust MSM? Fine. I mistrust the Trump Campaign and RW media pushing these "facts". My own wasted time has illustrated that they are consistently wrong. Spend your own hours scouring affidavits, court cases, and election laws while researching a particular claim from your list. Post your findings here once you are able to speak authoritatively on the subject and show your work. That is going to be a lot more convincing than citing a list of claims of dubious quality.

 

Yes, i took the time to enumerate the claims since they are at the center of the divide over election results. I didn't see all the claims listed anywhere so thought listing them out was worthwhile.

As you point out, the sheer volume of allegations makes it almost impossible to verify unless i have time to read many legal documents, court documents etc.. This would take days and days, IF i could get my hands on all of it. I have researched some, not all but in process of doing so but part of the reason of this thread is to debate the validity of the claims, the first step is listing them out. I have put some time in it, as you can see, but still doing the research. I disagree that merely listing claims is sowing distrust, that would only be the case if i stated that i knew all these claims were valid but i don't; in fact, i ask the question in OP - truth, false, debunked?. We cannot be censoring people just because they list out claims made by the president of the United States, who has roughly half the country behind him. Not researching every single one of these claims is not a reason not to list them, the first step to debating claims is to list them out. This is what this OP is about, list them, debate them. I am trying to research all, but as you very well know, takes time and i should not need to wait to complete the research before listing the president's claims.

 

There's actually been ballot audits in multiple swing states (including Georgia and Pennsylvania) , as well as ballot canvassing and hand recounts. We've also had investigations from the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice, as well as investigation at the state level. And finally there has been over 60 court rulings made at the state and federal election regarding the election. All of which came to the same unanimous conclusion on mass voter fraud

No one is against ballot audits, what people are against is not certifying the election based on unproven claims of mass voter fraud. Literally anyone can make up a claim about voter fraud, but there's a formal process for determining if they are true or not. The Trump campaign lost every case they brought forward relating to voter fraud, so with that there was no basis for not certifying the election. Investigations can continue, but if we were to cancel or postpone the certification process based on mere claims of fraud, we would set a precedence where every election is indefinitely delayed. The sitting president would simple put out more and more claims as means of staying in office for years to come.

Realistically speaking, you cannot expect the certification process to be changed or postponed until you can prove that there was fraud

 

Good on you for taking the time. I think most of us have lost patience.

Sadly it won't stick. Trump supporters want their hero in power - that is their goal. Not uncovering election "fraud". They will simply jump to another excuse or fabrication and there's an army of Internet hamsters and right wing media drip feeding this stuff 24/7. It doesn't appear to be a battle that you can win with logic, expert authority, reality or facts.

 

That's part of the problem. The clear aim of many Trump supporters was to attack with a scattergun of countless different claims and accusations to make it impossible to assess them all and to create the impression of some grand nationwide conspiracy to steal the election. You won't find legal documents for many of the claims you list because they've never been presented in any legal or formal context, they're just random claims from the internet. Many of the things that did go to court weren't direct accusations of fraud but objections to the processes of the election in given states or counties (some legitimate, many not) but they were also used on the internet as part of that mass of impenetrable information to spin the general assertion; that the election was stolen. As has been shown, several of the claims you list have been clearly and repeatedly addressed, shown to be either wilful misinformation or basic ignorance, yet they all continue to be included in lists like this.

It should be also noted that nobody has anywhere presented evidence of anything close to a nationwide conspiracy to steal the election. Most of the claims refer to unexplained quirks or oddities, numbers not matching up, some unidentified boxes on a truck or potential vulnerabilities identified in technology. Even if there are individual cases of proven fraud (which there has been, though that happens with ever election), that only proves individual fraud, not any concerted effort to steal the presidency. That remains an entirely empty accusation.

 

You know why there were no "problems" in Florida? Because Trump won it. Isn't it funny that all the "problems" were found in states that Trump narrowly lost? If you were actually interested in election fraud, you'd probably look at states like FL and TX too, but you don't. Because it is not about election fraud, it is about overturning an election, of which you just don't like the outcome.

 

I'm glad you listed them as allegations instead of facts because many are proven false.

 

Ah, perhaps I was not clear then. I was NOT intending to say that you were sowing mistrust. I was intending to say the president, his campaign, his lawyers, his allies, and RW outlets in general are sowing mistrust by making all of these claims. Their attempt is to bury "you", the reader, follower, or other individual who is already susceptible to believing these sources under the weight of the sheer volume of accusations irrespective of each individual claim's validity.

Trying to take the time to research each individual claim is time consuming. If they have already convinced you that the MSM / officials / fact checkers are biased and cannot be trusted, the only thing left is to dig through the documents yourself. And honestly, nobody has time for all that.

Out of respect for the stated goal of your thread, here are all of the individual investigations I have done throughout the board in case you find them useful in your own investigations:

Claim: Undeniable mathematical evidence the election was stolen: post 1, post 2
Claim: Impossible ballot return dates in PA: post 1
Claim: NYT accidentally provides data proving votes were switched: post 1
Claim: Dominion switched votes in GA: post 1
Claim: Untoward actions in GA state farm arena: post 1, post 2
Claim: GA individual exposes how they dishonestly perform signature validation in GA: post 1
Claim: Voter fraud ring caught in TX: post 1
Claim: Various WI election accusations: post 1, post 2, post 3, post 4, post 5, post 6, post 7,
Claim: Forensic analysis on MI voting machines show they are failing way over acceptable error rate: post 1

If you plan to or have already done similar research, I would be interested in reading it.

 

This is the bigger problem, the refusal of the courts to delve into the evidence, senator rand paul is right! The courts turned their backs on the american voter by refusing to look deeper at the evidence. The institutions rather have fraud and an illegitimate president than uncovering fraud, correcting results and have americans lose faith in the process.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/sen-rand-paul-continues-making-142600424.html


"The debate over whether or not there was fraud should occur, we never had any presentation in court where we actually looked at the evidence. Most of the cases were thrown out for lack of standing, which is a procedural way of not actually hearing the question," Paul said on ABC's "This Week."

 

No it's not. Rand is is not so stupid as to believe this stuff himself. He is just pandering because he has decided to put personal ambition over truth. The only reason people are losing faith in the institutions is because their belief structure is built like a religion where critical thinking is not necessary. When people like Rand, and RW outlets, and the POTUS undermine the confidence in the election by claiming fraud, fraud, fraud, the True Believers eat it up without analyzing if that stuff is true or not because our side good, their side bad. Ed Good, Rocko Bad.

Plenty of evidence has been looked at. Most of the court cases didn't even bother to allege fraud because the evidence does not support that. Most of them argue various procedural problems, in-compliance with state law, violations of due process due to counties handling things differently from one another, etc.

I tried go give you some benefit of the doubt by going claim by claim based on what I actually had personally investigated, and even linked to every individual dive into specific claims I made on the board, but it looks like you have not done the same. You come off as another ideologue who knows The Truth without ever having to investigate a single claim. I mean, just look at that list of stuff. Obviously something bad must have gone down if all these claims can be made.

It's not like you're even looking for an investigation anyways since you reveal in your post the conclusion you've already made. If an investigation were undertaken and did not find fraud, you would just claim the investigators are compromised - like Trump did on his call to Raffensburg.

You are more than welcome to research literally one claim from your list and post your findings. I would still be interested in reviewing actual evidence of fraud. But thus far these are claims and nothing more. And as always, the burden of proof is upon the one making the claim, not those rejecting it. You say "The institutions rather have fraud and an illegitimate president than uncovering fraud." Well prove it. Prove fraud by researching even one claim from your list, and post your findings.

Or don't, like everyone else on this board. And instead, prove my assumption that you are just another ideologue with a belief structure akin to a religion, where you don't actually care about the truth of matters. Content to be just another person spouting "Ed Good, Rocko Bad".

 

Sadly - it looks like Trump's best chance to prove fraud was just taken away

https://nypost.com/2021/01/26/priest-leaves-diocese-after-live-streaming-voter-fraud-exorcisms/

 

I believe Biden won. There was most likely not enough fraud to change the election results. However, I would like to see an extensive investigation over the next four years. Verify the following:

Confirm that the people who cast a ballot were legal residents of that state at the time they cast the ballots. That means checking sufficient number to insure that they actually lived where they claimed they lived.

Check signatures. Do the signatures on file match those in the voter rolls.

Check voting machines. See whether controls are sufficient to make sure they are tamper proof. See if tampering can be detected.

I am sure there are other things that could and should be checked.

 

The President's Fraud Allegations, the list
I notice the responses to the OP is tepid at best, showing that there is very little interest in facts and reality.