A logical and empirical look at Election Fraud in 2020

Virtually nothing, which is why they lost 64 out of 65 cases. It was kind of funny, anytime they mentioned fraud the judge would ask the Trump lawyers "are you alleging fraud" and the answer every time was no - due to rule 11 you mentioned. If you'd like to see the court documents on very single case I can point you in the right direction but it is boring, tedious reading. Note; while it was a total of 65 cases, the number of judges involved was likely in the high 80's or more due to appeals. Appeals are NOT counted as losses, only the original filings do (Trump and allies lost every appeal).

 

This is typical of the Trump lawsuits' claims. It simply did not happen. Trump has apparently spent his entire life knowingly making claims of events that did not happen, and millions of Americans choose to believe him despite the fact that he is known rarely to utter a grammatical sentence that is not a bald lie.

False.

Again, false.

But if they are not corroborated by other evidence, or the claimed fraudulent actions were merely misinterpreted, and were in fact performed according to established procedures, it's just a claim.

The videos in question do not actually show those claimed events.

There are so many instances like this it is ridiculous.

Again, claims of events that simply never transpired.

 

They have to believe every lie - otherwise Trumpism will implode

 

Let me help you out...

This is reason enough to run like hell from him.
At the beginning he was fully aware he was just making stuff up. I agree with you, after saying it hundreds of thousands of times, it became his reality.
This is sick. Seriously.

I only believe fact.

I learned long ago that as seductive as conspiracy theories are, they are almost always nonsense.

 

Before I start, just let me say, in all sincerity, this is really disheartening. You can find the truth to everything you site a few strokes.
Damn it, you have an obligation to your fellow countrymen to so do.

This is simply made up. As I said, this is easily verified as is the rest of the nonsense you posted.

This was ruled on. As long as the voter was told these were the new rules, the rules were valid.

This is simply untrue. Google is the friend of the honest.

These are accusations, not evidence. All affidavits were found to be either mistaken or simply false.

This was a false INTERPITATION of video. What happened was explained. No question remained.

Yes, it is ridiculous. You have to be better than this. Period.

I am not kidding you, my heart just sank reading this post. Come on man, be better, you are my brother.

Peace

 

Proof.

 

What do you mean, proof? You know the coin was flipped 1000 times. You don't know what any of the flips were, so you have no evidence. Do you believe there was at least once sequence of five heads in a row?

 

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No evidence is no evidence (something Trump supporters just can't seem to get) ….and what TF this crap has to do with the FACT that the election was fair and not rigged is anybody's guess...

 

No its not.

 

I get what you're saying, but there is a thing called probability. If the coin flips were increased to 100 million, would you still demand proof to believe such a thing? Do you also demand video evidence of someone being struck by lightning to believe that someone, somewhere, got struck by lightning in the year 2020?

The OP's position is not unreasonable that an improbable thing is likely to have happened given the sheer volume of occurrences. We do have documented cases of fraud:

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search

So we know it exists. But we also have a basic understanding of how much more legitimate voting goes on than voter fraud by simple math. With respect, demanding absolute proof of something that is probable to have happened overall despite the unlikeliness of it happening per instance is the less reasonable position.

But if you demand proof, here you go. A documented case of voter fraud in 2020: https://www.phillyvoice.com/voter-f...ection-bruce-bartman-charged-delaware-county/

 

I try to approach things from a skeptical and logical point of view. I generally vote third party, but like many third party voters, felt compelled to vote for Biden this year due to what I saw as a proto-authoritarian in Trump and the way he demanded loyalty from his party.

The accusations of voter fraud have felt far fetched and in general require the belief that thousands and thousands of individuals are cooperating together to commit fraud on a scale we have never yet experienced. The complete lack of leaks from the sheer volume of individuals who would be required to pull off such a feat is difficult to ignore. It reminds me very much of 9/11 truthers. In the sayings of a South Park episode, it was only the world's most intricate and flawlessly executed plan ever, ever.

Something that is apparently lost on the "rigged election" crowd is that the sheer number of new accusations of fraud does not make the story more believable. It makes it less. That's just more people who had to participate and more mouths that have to be kept shut. Why cheat in so many different ways and introduce so many more points of potential failure? As someone who doesn't particularly believe in the efficiency of government, or in general large groups of people working together, the bigger the conspiracy, the less likely it would have a chance of succeeding without people getting caught or being compromised.

Nevertheless, I have tried to treat individual claims with an open mind. I posted a compilation of each claim I have examined here: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-allegations-the-list.583566/#post-1072364887

None have been convincing that significant fraud took place. I know this must come as terribly shocking news.

Appreciate your reasoned approach. The Trump voting crowd needs more like you.

 

Thanks for being forefront & honest... I like that; I do believe that you have much more 'delving' & examination to do...

 

Since the claim that "affidavits are evidence" has again come up, it's worthwhile to consider a Michigan case in which the submitted affidavits were used. Link to story.

Chief Judge Timothy M. Kenny described the plaintiff’s "interpretation" of events on Election Day as "incorrect and not credible."

In his ruling, Kenny took issue with a string of affidavits presented as evidence in the case – similar to those filed in Pennsylvania -- in which several poll challengers allege they witnessed numerous activities of fraudulent behavior during the counting process.

"Plaintiffs rely on numerous affidavits from election challengers who paint a picture of sinister fraudulent activities occurring both openly in the TCF Center and under the cloak of darkness," Kenny writes, noting that those claims were "decidedly contradicted" by an election expert put forth by the defense.

In a not-so-subtle slap on the wrist, Kenny suggested the challengers should have attended the training session in October, so they could have known what they were witnessing during the counting process was standard practice.

"Regrettably, they did not and, therefore, [those who filed affidavits] did not have a full understanding of the … ballot tabulation process."

The moral of the story: people who are expecting to see fraud will infer fraud when they don't understand what is going on.

There have been reports of other affidavits that were hearsay (I heard they were doing xyz...), and speculations (I bet they were doing xyz...). None of these 3 types of affidavit constitute perjury, so the oft-repeated claim that there's "credibility because they're under threat of being charged with perjury" doesn't hold water.

I'd be happy consider affidavits that don't fit these patterns, if someone can point me at some.

 

There was NO voter fraud on the level Trump claimed there was, there was NO stolen election , Trump was not cheated, any "voter fraud " was NEVER enough to change anything.....

How asinine to claim "well, ya there is voter fraud, squawck, there is voter fraud, squawck ...but it doesn't matter cause it's so little it DOESN'T MATER""


What TF is the POINT ?



"""With respect, demanding absolute proof of something that is probable to have happened """

well , that's what the courts needed and demanded and Rudy and Trump had NONE... And THAT IS WHAT MATTERS

 

If you are conflating voter suppression with voter fraud then that has been ONGOING by the Republicans for DECADES now. They even BRAG about doing it.

 

I really don't get the impression from the OP that he is asserting he believes anything on the level of the type of fraud Trump and Rudy are claiming happened. I get the impression he is asserting he believes the kinds of things CNN was talking about while counting the votes. John King was talking about how "every election has fraud, but small fraud, a few ballots here and there, not on the magnitude the president is claiming".

It is a reasonable position. Attacking someone over the belief in the mundane and probable is pointless. And yes, to make specific accusations of fraud, you need proof when you go to court. You have to do the same to make accusations of murder. But it would be unreasonable to demand absolute proof of a specific murder from 2020 to tell someone they are foolish to believe someone somewhere got murdered in 2020. The overall likelihood is so high that it would be almost impossible that at least one occurrence didn't happen.

 

Because Trump did not sign the pleadings?

 

Focus:

"NATURE OF THE ACTION
1. This civil action brings to light a massive election fraud..."

WILLIAM FEEHAN,
v.
Plaintiff,
CASENO. 2:20-cv-1771
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF WISCONSIN
WISCONSIN ELECTIONS COMMISSION, and its members ANN S. JACOBS, MARK L. THOMSEN, MARGE BOSTELMAN, JULIE M. GLANCEY, DEAN KNUDSON, ROBERT F. SPINDELL, JR., in their official capacities, GOVERNOR TONY EVERS, in his official capacity,
Defendants.
https://electioncases.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Feehan-v-WEC-Doc9.pdf

 

You don’t seem to know how lawsuits work. This is why you are so confused. Trump had nothing to do with that cited lawsuit. He was not a party to it in any way. So again, as I’ve correctly pointed out, not a single trump lawsuit so much as alleged fraud.

 

LOL! So, was Trump a "party" to the "65" lawsuits you referred to as "Trump lawsuits"?

 

It was specifically in response to the proposition that there was fraud. There was fraud. There is always a bit of fraud in an election of that scale because that fact is part of what we know about how elections work. Similarly, without knowing any of the flips, we can say that because of what we know about how coin flipping works, there is very likely a string of five heads in a row somewhere in the 1000 flips, even though there is no direct evidence for it. That line of reasoning of course does not support the claim that fraud was widespread, or sufficient to invalidate Biden's victory.

Just keeping it real.

 

OMG, you cited one of the Kraken's and Lin Wood's suits, which was dismissed out of hand, I don't think this ever saw the inside of a courtroom although I would have paid good money to see those 2 whackjobs go into a courtroom claiming massive fraud. Court's ruling is attached, one of the 64 losses. The judge in this case was NOT impressed by plaintiffs work on this, here's just a snippit of what the judge wrote: "One wonders why the plaintiffs came to federal court and asked a federal judge to do so. After a week of sometimes odd and often harried litigation, the court is no closer to answering the “why". But this federal court has no authority or jurisdiction to grant the relief the remaining plaintiff seeks. The court will dismiss the case." The entire decision is linked below - 45 pages, happy reading.

Sidney Powell & Lin Wood, I'm still laughing....

https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/20314496542.pdf

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
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No evidence is no evidence (something Trump supporters just can't seem to get) ….and what TF this crap has to do with the FACT that the election was fair and not rigged is anybody's guess...

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There is always a tiny, MEANINGLESS, amount of fraud in elections....
Wow, you made a point by mentioning the OBVIOUS, "everybody knows that", elephant in the room !!!



... and what TF this crap has to do with the FACT that the election was fair and not rigged is anybody's guess...

 

And for some reason, that got your knickers in a twist.

The election was certainly not fair: it reflected the long and disgraceful history of Republican Congress members' and state governments' efforts to suppress and disenfranchise Democrat voters.

 

Fake News. The Courts for the most part did not want to get involved, Judges can't solve every problem for us, some are political problems left to the voting system, which is why an honest open ballot is so important.

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