Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Religiously motivated religious archeology is quite something. For instance, the exodus claimed numbers make the story a physical impossibility that no earthly miracle can overcome.

Nobody said that the bible wasn't a product of its times. Ancient primitive human tribes venerated their dead. And because there was no "paperwork" each devised spiritual rituals to do that throughout the generations. The hebrews used the ol' "begat" technique. Nothing unique here.

The entire narrative of the bible takes place within a specific geographical location so its no wonder that evidence of many places, names, personages and even some events can be found. That narrative is in essence a primitive tribes spiritual perspective.

But its all a matter of perspective and personal spirituality or lack thereof and the freedom to differ.

 

Your remark about the 'paper work' is amusing. Living in the past was 'poor, brutish and short'
BUT THERE WAS NO PAPER WORK TO BE DONE.


ps Most archaeology is not 'religiously motivated' (unless it's funded by some church)
What I mentioned comes from standard archaeology, just done in the land of the
Israelites in particular, or the Middle East in general.

And 'product of its times' wasn't the case here - standard 'scholarship' holds that the
Old Testament was written in Babylonian times (about 600 BC) But the things which
have been dug up were laid down as much as a 1,000 years earlier, and attest they
actually happened, or existed, like the Shiloh example above.

 

When was the adjective “holy” first used in conjunction with the word “Bible“?

 

Love, companianship, marriage, including all the tax breaks that go with it. As you well know.

 

Hating something that doesn't exist is a bit nonsensical, don't you think. Hating an idea - ditto. An idea is something dreamt up in someone's mind. If I don't like an idea, I simply dismiss it.

You, on the other hand, hate the idea that facts given you might be wrong.- even though they are proven.

 

If you have time....I would appreciate your interpretation of this quote...
“What you are looking for is what is looking.” Another version of it that I've seen is....
"What you are looking for is already where you are looking from"
St Francis of Assisi

Also have seen similar quote here....
“If you search everywhere, yet cannot find what you are seeking, it is because what you seek is already in your possession.”
― Lao Tzu

 

Hold on amigo, here dwell on what I'm going to present here.

Some atheists are in fact anti-God. Atheist is a label some hide behind to mask a deep hatred toward God. Often due to childhood trauma or abuse in the name of religion, these people are consumed by an antipathy toward all things religious. The only way they can retaliate against a God they consider cruel is to deny Him vehemently. Events of the past have left wounds so deep that it is easier to deny the reality of God than admit that they hate Him. True atheists would not include this group in their numbers, as they recognize that to be angry with God is to acknowledge His existence.

But many people do, in fact, call themselves atheists while simultaneously expressing outrage toward a God whose existence they deny. They complain, mock, and pronounce ethical condemnation against the God of the Bible...just like you would do to someone you hate.

Atheists hate God and Christians because they are actually not confident that God does not exist and seeing Christians may remind them that they are "suppressing the truth" Many atheists complain about hell; they are angry at God because of hell.

Some of the atheists who had a religious upbringing hate God because of evil things done to them by teachers in religious schools or by church leaders—people who on the face of it represented God. Antipathy towards God is an understandable reaction, sadly...although illogical.

So the atheists claim, "We don't hate what does not exist"...But then you see atheists site OT Scriptures where God does what they think is morally reprehensible...which is ludicrous since they have no objective and absolute morals by which to make such judgments. Many believe morals are subjective.

All the regular condemnation of God, many atheists accuse God of his immorality, speaking evil of Him, etc. clearly demonstrates that they hate God.
There is a myriad of reasons why atheists hate God and Christians...I could write a book about them. Those I have presented are just a small sample.

What has been proven to me? Sorry trev, you haven't proven anything to me. I'm pretty sure you're talking about the Great Flood of Noah. The jury is still out on this one, the debate is on going, nothing is conclusive yet.

Lastly let me bring up what we read in scripture.

We Read in Scripture:

"But God shows His anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because He has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see His invisible qualities---His eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship Him as God or even give Him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshipping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshipped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshipped and served the things God created instead of the Creator Himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, He abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God's justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. Romans 1:18-32 NLT

 

If I may ask an impertinent question.

Is your intimate knowledge of the atheist mind something you were taught/learned or was it divinely received?

 

First of all do you know what St. Francis & Lao meant by their quotes? I mean did they explain themselves as to what they were trying to convey in the quotes they made?

 

trevorw2539:

Your above claim that the Biblical flood of Noah's day is "a 100% impossibility," accompanied by your further claim that "science proves it," depends whether you believe credible science or quackery. In fact, there is scientific evidence that the Biblical flood of Noah's day did indeed occur. Below is one of many credible sources, the Smithsonian:

"Evidence for a Flood
Sediment layers suggest that 7,500 years ago Mediterranean water roared into the Black Sea

Scholars usually attribute things like the worldwide occurrence of flood stories to common human experiences and our love of repeating good stories, but recently scientists have started to uncover evidence that Noah's flood may have a basis in some rather astonishing events that took place around the Black Sea some 7,500 years ago."
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/evidence-for-a-flood-102813115/

Alter2Ego

 

I have no idea all that was going on, I mean how would I know all that? I identify with the heterosexual group and so I don't know what gays are going through as far love, companionship, marriage, and getting tax breaks. So your claim is that some Christians are denying them all these things...I don't know about that.

All I know is that in this country the USA, there are laws to protect people's individual rights no matter who they are. They are not suppose to be discriminated against no matter what their ethnic background is, the color of their skin, their religious affiliations, their sexual identity/preferences, etc. etc.

But I would imagine in foreign countries especially in communist and Muslim ones, gays are persecuted and live a very tough life.

Lastly, life as we know is not always fair, it's because we live in a fallen sinful world that we have all these miseries, cruelties, crimes, hatred, etc. etc.

We Read in Scripture:

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

Do Not Judge Others

37 “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and you will receive. Your gift will return to you in full—pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, running over, and poured into your lap. The amount you give will determine the amount you get back.” Luke 6:37-38 NLT

 

trevorw2539:

Wrong again. And your example of the half-filled bath with water does nothing for your argument. Scientific evidence has confirmed what there is more water available on earth than necessary to cover the entire Earth. Planet Earth contains far more water than landmass that is above sea level. To be exact, there is 11 times more water on earth than there is land mass above sea level. The New Encyclopedia Britannica states:

"The average depth of all the seas has been estimated at 3,790 metres (12,430 feet), a figure considerably larger than that of the average elevation of the land above the sea level, which is 840 metres (2,760 feet). If the average depth is multiplied by its respective surface area, the volume of the World Ocean is 11 times the volume of the land above sea level."
https://www.britannica.com/science/ocean/Major-subdivisions-of-the-oceans

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989038

Alter2Ego

 

I'm not wrong that God revealed Himself to us, and I'm not saying that He personally came up to me to reveal Himself. You need to stop misinterpreting what is being said. Obviously I meant through His Best Selling Book of All-Time the Holy Bible, He has revealed Himself to us.

It is incorrect in the sense that you misinterpreted what I had said and so you shouldn't have needed to make that statement at all.

Sorry but there is evidence for God only, your made up goofy flying unicorn with a purple tongue or was it purple loins...lol I forgot what was purple...could you tell me again?

Oh ok it was purple ears, thanks for telling me. Your questioning is hilarious... funny to the core!

 

Through my life experiences, observations, hearing, reading I've learned a thing or two regarding the worldview mind of an atheist. I mean right here at the PF alone I have seen quotes from atheists that were rather nasty and highly disrespectful, ridiculing, mocking, imagine that directing all of it towards our Almighty God the Creator of the universe and of all living beings...so shameful/disrespectful I tell ya!

God has given us the free will to disobey Him, blaspheme Him and yes even mock Him. But we are warned in Galatians 6:7 that God will not always be mocked. The blasphemy and derision are temporary. There will be a day of reckoning, and, ultimately, a man reaps what he sows.

We Read in Scripture:

7 Don’t be misled—you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant. Galatians 6:7 NLT

7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. Galatians 6:7 ESV

 

So you don't think you are at all presumptive in your declarations of the intimate intellectual and emotional motivations and perceptions of atheists? Perhaps you are unaware that you do this in setting up your strawman arguments.

 

Not true. Nothing in the Bible can be disproven, to say "most have since been disproven" comes from someone being intellectually dishonest. I guess, actually I should say, I know that someone right now is you...0311.

Let me point out a fact to you, nobody on God's green earth can prove/disprove anything regarding the Bible/God/Jesus Christ.

 

I don't know, the global flood comes to mind. Adam and eve might have some doubters and that tower of babel, well I tell ya.

 

Even if the Mediterranean roared into the Black Sea that is still a very far way from the Noah fairy tale in the Bible. They have zero common points.

 

The Bible plainly says that Christians are required to judge each other. Maybe if they did they would get rid of all of those scummy crooked televangelist preachers.

 

Personally I do not care if you believe all of creation popped out of a gods ass in a religious bout of flatulence as long as you do not try to teach such drivel to the young and then make laws around the nonsense.

 

You're just spouting off unsubstantiated biased opinion but speaking about scientific progress, it certainly took a while for the scientific community minds to finally admit the universe had a beginning. For a long long time they held the position that the universe has always been in existence, in other words eternal. That was a delight for them, that way they could claim there is no God that created the universe, because the universe has always been here.

The bright, intelligent mind of physicist Albert Einstein hated to admit that the universe had a beginning.

Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity means that the universe had a beginning and was not eternal as he had previously believed (Einstein was originally a pantheist). His theory proved that the universe is not a cause, but instead one big effect—something brought it into existence. Einstein disliked his end result so much that he introduced a “fudge factor” into his theory that allowed for an eternal universe. But there was only one problem. His fudge factor required a division by zero in his calculations—a mathematical error any good math student knows not to make.

When discovered by other mathematicians, Einstein admitted his error calling it “the greatest blunder of my life.” After his acknowledgment, and upon confirming further research that showed the universe expanding just as his theory of relativity predicted, Einstein bowed to the fact that the universe is not eternal and said, "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details."

And so for his own sake, hopefully before his death he converted over to Christianity, if he was wise enough to do that.

We already know he was a brilliant physicist but being brilliant does not necessarily equate to being wise as well.

Then he could ask God face to face the question that has baffled his brilliant mind from the day he learned the universe had a beginning and it was not a cause and not eternal as he once believed it to be but it was one big effect that was brought into existence.

Of course God's explanation is going to be way over Einstein's mind to comprehend.

He'll probably say to the Lord, "That's ok you don't need to explain it to me, btw I really like the accommodations here." ...lol

Yes, those desert dwellers of the past several thousands of years ago told us that the universe had a beginning, it's the first thing one reads in Scripture but only in recent history has science finally caught up and acknowledged the fact that the universe had a beginning.

We Read in Scripture:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1 NLT

 

Actually science does not tell us the universe had a beginning, the truth is no one knows, but carry on with you false, unproven claims!

 

No explanation from them that I have found yet...perhaps you can explain?

 

According to scripture people go to one of two places after death, the believers (Christians) go to heaven and all the unbelievers go to hell. An unbeliever is anyone who has not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior for salvation.

Christians souls (spirits) are taken to heaven because they have received Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior and so their sins are forgiven. Their death is to be away from the body and at home with God. Their bodies remain in the grave sleeping. At the resurrection of believers the physical body is resurrected and glorified then reunited with their soul (spirit). This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the possession of believers for eternity in the new heavens and new earth.

For the unbelievers death means everlasting punishment. But similar to the destiny of believers, they are sent immediately to a place temporarily, there they await their final resurrection, then they will be judged, then sent to their eternal destination.

So basically, according to Scripture, people are sent to a temporary heaven or hell right after their death. Then after being in this temporary heaven or hell, at the final resurrection they will be sent to their eternal destiny that will not change. So a person's final eternal destination is based solely on whether they had accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior for salvation or not.

For reference to everything I've said, see/read: 2 Corinthians 5:6-8, Philippians 1:23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, Matthew 25:46, John 3:36, Revelation 20:11-15, Revelation 21:1, and Revelation Chapters 21 & 22.

But for now let me leave you with one passage that we read in Scripture.

We Read in Scripture:

The New Jerusalem

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.” Revelation 21:1-4 NLT

 

BINGO!

Logically speaking, Christianity is (like any other religion) a circular argument with other arguments stemming from it. A circular argument in and of itself is NOT fallacious... it is the attempt to prove or disprove a circular argument that is fallacious (aka the circular argument fallacy). Such attempts to prove/disprove a circular argument can also referred to as "religious fundamentalism".

Fundamentalists exist in any religion, but some religions are inherently fundamentalist religions, such as the Church of Global Warming. Such fundamentalists also tend to falsely claim that their religion is "science" and/or "what we know". They are, unfortunately, deceiving themselves.