Remembering Edward Snowden

~ I am disappointed that Trump did not pardon Edward Snowden.
There are many in government who belong in prison. Snowden is not one of them.

 

The NSA does that because of the loser bush and hard right wing nutters.
They are the ones that started the program, blame them and put them in prison.

 

Fair enough, **** the bastard - but did you see what he revealed?

 

There ya go, that's the true American spirit in 2020. Yes, liberty dies to thunderous applause!

 

I sure do have an argument. He broke the law! Period. No other argument is even necessary.

Despite the fact that I agree that the law should change, he did break it. So if we are to remain a country of laws, he should go to trial and let's see if prosecutors can prove it without putting the life of others or clear national interest at risk. I would be rooting for him. But if he is proven guilty (obviously), and even some of his own public remarks do seem to be a confession that he did, he should go to prison.

Easy as that!

But your claim that my response was "semantic dribble" shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Leakers break the law. Whistleblowers don't. This is stated by the law. The difference is the only thing that is relevant in this debate.

 

I realize that appeal to authority fallacy is one of your skills .. but.. "Fallacy" does not constitute a valid argument.

Did you have anything else Mate ?

Part 2 - "What should be the punishment" ? Sure he broke the law .. but nothing worthy of Jail time ? or should we lock him up and throw away the key.

 

So - your argument is that because Bush jumped off a bridge - it was OK for Obama to follow...

Hmmmm ... something don't pass the smell test here.

 

Did I say it was OK for ANYONE to do it??
Can you post the quote where I said that?
Or are you just making stuff up like a typical Qpublican?

 

Lt. Col. Vindman, fired by White House after testifying in Trump impeachment, will retire from Army

WASHINGTON — Army Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the former Ukraine expert for the National Security Council who testified in President Donald Trump’s impeachment case, will retire from the military, his lawyer announced Wednesday in a statement that charged Trump with bullying.

Vindman was ousted by Trump in February from his White House role as director of European Affairs after the soldier testified to House lawmakers that a July 2019 phone call between Trump and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy had been “inappropriate.” Vindman, who received a Purple Heart for injuries sustained in combat in Iraq, testified publicly only after receiving a subpoena from Congress, his lawyer, David Pressman, wrote in the statement.
https://www.stripes.com/news/army/l...mp-impeachment-will-retire-from-army-1.636781

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-slammed-retweeting-name-alleged-ukraine-whistleblower-2019-12

Here’s All The Top Officials Trump Has Removed Since His Impeachment
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbr...emoved-since-his-impeachment/?sh=a0b3fa0138cd

If you are on the side of the country, meaning you are not on Don's side, you're gone.

 

That was exactly you were arguing ... and it matters not if you used the exact words.

What are you saying here if not trying to say that the Bush administration should be blamed for actions under Obama - and Not Obama ?

 

Why do we need a death penalty for a crime like this?

 

What an absurd response! You call my saying that he broke the law a "fallacy". And two lines down you agree he broke the law.

And then you ask what punishment should be applied. The absolute obvious answer is: whatever the law provides. Which, I believe is, in fact, jail time. But if the judge decides to apply a fine... great! But I doubt that would happen. I mean, the guy has pretty much confessed that he broke the law.

Bottom line: the guy did something that was good for this country. But he must confront the consequences of his actions if we are to remain a country of laws. I do wish he had followed the established whistleblower protocol. But he didn't...

 

Holy cow, the twisting and turning and making up stuff you rightist do.......Not even going to mention the hypocrisy

What I said, and what you quoted is that the loser bush started the spying and the right justified it. Period, full stop, do not pass Go.
How you construe anything more than that is entirely on you.

 

No idea why you posted this ? - has nothing to do with Whistleblowers - or Snowden .. You OK - or is the TDS still haunting you ?

 

Correct .. Just because Trump broke the law - does not mean that the law was valid - or its application - hence your appeal to authority fallacy... in this case "The Law" being the Authority .. Justice System - What have you.

The claim on the table is that the Justice System is a Kangaroo clown show - you stating - "Snowden broke the law" - does not change this fact.

The Law is all over the map on this one - as alluded to in the previous post .. the question to you is .. What punishment fits this crime .. and what is your justification for this...

once again stating "What ever the Law Provides" is not justification for anything - it is appeal to authority fallacy.

Snowden can not get a fair trial in this nation .. which is why he will not come here to "face the consequences" - what part of this do you not understand ? - the third or 4th time now I have stated this to you on this topic.

How much Jail time is appropriate - and were there mitigating factors .. such as NO - going through proper channels would have accomplished nothing - other than persecution - having his life ruined by the state .. so his life is ruined either way.

It is not Snowden that is the threat to national security .. it is our Gov't that is a threat to national security - or at least a much greater threat.

Is one allowed to break the law in cases of illegitimacy of authority or is one not ?

 

You seem to be having trouble with what follows from your statement.

In response to an accusation against Obama - w/r to the NSA spying program .. you try to blame Bush - stating that he started the program - as if this get's Obama continuing the program off the hook

So Bush Jumped off the Bridge - Obama followed - but because Bush jumped off first - Obama jumping off is OK - and he is not responsible for his actions.

 

He belongs in prison more than many who are there.

 

God! Do you read what you write? Just like your previous one, this is yet another bipolar response. You start by acknowledging what I say is "correct", and then you claim it's a fallacy.

Do you even know what the word "fallacy" means?

Look it up, and then get back to us.

The fact that the Justice System is a Kangaroo clown show, does not change the fact that "Snowden broke the law". Which is my one and only claim, and my one and only argument.

You can break the law for whatever reason you want. But then you'll be sent to prison. And that's that.

 

~ Politicians are immune from the law. Until that changes we need to be careful who we procecute. Snowden blew the lid off an administration that was secretly abusing citizens civil rights. If he was charged so should every Obama cabinet member who knew/participated - including the president himself .

 

What a joke of a response - So what if Snowden Broke the law .. it does not necessarily follow that because one broke the law - that one should be sent to prison - nor does it follow that lawbreaking is necessarily wrong.

So what is the point of your statement .. So what if Snowden broke the law in his effort to fight for your civil liberties - against a rogue state..

What problem have you with this ? or did you want to do nothing but run around blathering "But he broke the Law" over and over again .. as if you had a point that relates to the topic.

 

It is true – Snowden was not a classic whistleblower – instead of complaining to authorities he revealed his information to journalists.

There are 3 types of people:
Stupid – they never learn
Smart – they learn from their own experience
Geniuses – they learn from stupid and smart people experience.

Why Snowden didn’t go the whistleblowers way?
Maybe he learned from William Binney experience?
Maybe he filed a formal complaint to the agency before he disclosed NSA information to journalists?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...assified-us-government-documents-9247021.html

Or maybe he learned from stupid and smart people experience.

 

It is in a nation of laws.

Another bipolar post from you? That's EXACTLY what I said. First you call it "a joke" and then you agree with me. You have to make up your mind.... Are you even reading?

The fact that what Snowden did is illegal doesn't necessarily make it wrong. But it does mean that, in a nation of laws, you go to prison.

If you steal a hundred dollar bill because you have no other way to feed your children or they'll die of starvation, it's not necessarily wrong, but it's illegal. And you go to prison.

 

I believe there are two steps he missed: if the agency director doesn't respond, he has to take it to the Inspector General. And if he doesn't respond, he takes it to Congress. If Congress doesn't respond then... I doubt they would have been able to find him liable if he then took it to the press.

 

Another disingenuous post --- we are all well aware that if you break the law - you go to jail -- that was not the question being addressed .. <COMMENTS EDITED>

 

~ Not if you're in politics .