Trump's 2nd Senate Impeachment Trial Begins Tuesday

I still LOL that people think T**** had any "policies".... He's the worlds fattest parrot..... Somebody tells him something and eventually, he repeats it back.....but then he repeats it endlessly....

People still commemorate 9/11 20 years later.... January 6th cannot be forgotten for what was attempted, albeit in a typically amateurish way....

 

When troops are disarmed by their commanders they cannot provide security for the capitol or themselves.

 

So how is Charles Manson in prison but Trump isnt? Their is no audio or video footage of him ordering the murders.

By your logic, he should be free.

 

I can't believe you ACTUALLY posted what you just did. That you ACTUALLY tried to equate the two and try to put Trump on the level of a Manson. Do you ACTUALLY realize what fallacious nonsense it is you just posted.

Here perhaps you don't really know what happened in the Manson Family murders

Murders of Tate, Sebring, Folger, Frykowski, and Parent[edit]
Main article: Tate–LaBianca murders
On the night of August 8, 1969, Manson directed Watson to take Susan Atkins, Linda Kasabian, and Patricia Krenwinkel to Melcher's former home at 10050 Cielo Drive in Los Angeles and kill everyone there. The home had only recently been rented to actress Sharon Tate and her husband, director Roman Polanski (Polanski was away in Europe working on The Day of the Dolphin). Manson told the three women to do as Watson told them. The Family members proceeded to kill the five people they found: Sharon Tate (eight and a half months pregnant), who was living there at the time; Jay Sebring, Abigail Folger, and Wojtek Frykowski, who were visiting her; and Steven Parent, who had been visiting the caretaker of the home. Atkins wrote "pig" with Tate’s blood on the front door as they left. The murders created a nationwide sensation.[50]

Murder of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca[edit]
Main article: Tate–LaBianca murders
LaBianca murders
Location 3301 Waverly Drive, Los Angeles, CA
Date August 10, 1969 (PDT)
Attack type
Stabbing, shooting
Deaths 2
Perpetrators Charles Manson, Tex Watson, Leslie Van Houten, Patricia Krenwinkel
The next night of August 9, 1969, six Family members—Leslie Van Houten, Steve "Clem" Grogan, and the four from the previous night—drove out on Manson's orders. Displeased by the panic attack of the victims at Cielo Drive, Manson accompanied the six, "to show them how to do it."[7]:176–184, 258–269[51] After a few hours' ride, in which he considered a number of murders and even attempted one of them,[7]:258–269[51] Manson gave Kasabian directions that brought the group to 3301 Waverly Drive. This was the home of supermarket executive Leno LaBianca and his wife, Rosemary, a dress shop co-owner.[7]:22–25, 42–48 Located in the Los Feliz section of Los Angeles, it was next door to a house at which Manson and Family members had attended a party the previous year.[7]:176–184, 204–210

According to Atkins and Kasabian, Manson disappeared up the driveway and returned to say he had tied up the house's occupants. He then sent Watson up with Krenwinkel and Van Houten.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manson_Family#Murders_of_Tate,_Sebring,_Folger,_Frykowski,_and_Parent

You can retract your failed attempt and some kind of logic you failed on the facts and the logic.

 

Lol. The only proof he told them is other people's words.

I never equated their crimes, simply that there was no direct evidence of Manson ordering these things.

We simply take the indirect evidence in front of us because it all adds up to a logical conclusion.

That you cant see the parallels is simply another attempt to downplay what Trump and his team did. As per usual.

 

trump cannot be criminally prosecuted until after his second term in 2024

also a FISA court would not issue a warrant based on indirect evidence of kool aid

 

I bet Charlie told his people 'I just need you to FIND me the exact number of people in the house to be dead.'

Psychopaths seem to know how to direct their cultists without saying things directly.... The Cohen code...

 

Lol weren't you saying their was no way he would lose?

Yeah, I'm just gonna have to say "sure. Uh huh".

 

Boy you guys sure are showing that Trump is still living in your head. I wonder why we're so divided these days, we heard Trump is Hitler now Trump is like Manson. I mean seriously you let politics turn to hatred of a fellow man, it drives you to the point where you make outlandish claims that almost seems like sheer stupidity. You told us we needed Biden for unity yet here the lefties are playing partisan politics to incite more division. Shocker.

 

there was no way trump could lose in a free country.

these are different times

 

Have you changed your tune?

 

Constitutional scholar @jcarlilesiu disagrees

 

And now you’re all saying we had to impeach him to charge him. Amazing how quick opinions change when it’s for trump

 

Well, specifically if he were still President(the Senate, wisely, decided he wasn't) this was still an unbelievably stupid trial, only to be surpassed by something even dumber and it all has one thing in common: The hatred of Donald Trump(and vice versa, Trump's own hate). Both sides irrationally hate each other to the point of taking disruptive action that harms society.

Both sides share the same guilt, and neither side is capable of building the society we want and need in today's world. Both sides have worked to destroy US Politics, and if only we could move on from both.

 

And yet, it seems to have been required to proceed today... if Mitch had only known that, being the legislative rookie he is....

Funny how that works...

As @The Mello Guy is pointing out, the current Trump argument is ludicrous because your arguments in 2021 were ludicrous...

 

Nothing about it was ludicrous. At that moment in time, Trump was no longer POTUS. In fact, leader McConnell told them to hurry up for that very reason. Madam Speaker, who was way too busy collaborating with the US Military, didn't get the memo and get those impeachment files there in time.

So now the Senate had the political football of 'impeaching' a private citizen, and wisely they were like 'Nah, not gonna open that can of worms'. Looks like a can of worms will be opened regardless, but it won't be on the Senate's head. Great call by the senate politicians to preserve the Senate institution.

One of these days, Democrats will understand the phrase "time-sensitive documents". Impeaching Trump was time-sensitive. The ability to apply the 14th, lies with the DOJ, ETC. Procedure is important.

What's ludicrous is how incompetently they hate Donald Trump. If they're going to pursue this to the ends of the earth, they might want to be more thorough. If the government wants to claim an insurrection, it can't be done with a speech(remember when Trump did the same thing about firing Special Counsel Mueller?) You have to actually, ****ing do it.

Tell Garland to file an insurrection charge, if it's really insurrection.

 

I mean, either that or the DOJ charges. What can't be done, is filing some stupid civil litigation and thinking litigants can apply the 14th. That can't legally happen.

 

I don’t follow any of this.
Trump says DOJ can’t charge without impeachment.
And who is applying the 14th to a civil suit?

 

You’re literally arguing against what trumps lawyers are saying!
He wasn’t impeached and removed for insurrection, so now he has immunity.

 

Seriously dude, did you NOT follow the Trump "legal argument" last week AT ALL??

In Trumpworld, it's not an either/or situation. Impeachment/Conviction is a prerequisite to DOJ charges.......

I mean, Geez...

 

According to who/what? Certainly not the 14th amendment itself...

Who is the ETC in your ETC? Could it be states, who each run their own elections (against my better judgment)??

 

Pleniary power lies in the executive branch, and btw you're misconstruing the legal argument presented by the Trump team. Certainly impeachment and removal of office is one way to activate the 14th, yes the Senate has that power. The executive, via the DOJ, also has the power to charge insurrection that's why it's a criminal statute.

The Trump team isn't arguing that only the Senate can utilize the 14th. But rather, that any proceedings would have to first start with the Senate(if there were any proceedings at all). The argument presupposes the beginning, and what would have to happen. It's an argument that exists in hypotheticals.

In the REAL world, the Senate did not utilize the 14th Amendment. And rather simply, the States do not have pleniary power. That belongs to the government, via the DOJ. The DOJ can charge insurrection like any other applicable criminal statute.

When SCOTUS correctly rules that the States nor us Joes can utilize the 14th, those of you who want this should criticize Garland for not filing insurrection charges if they really believe it to be so.

 

You are all over the map.... the impeachment prerequisite issue and the 14th amendment disqualification issue are 2 TOTALLY different things, currently in different courts.

Get up to speed, pick an issue, and we'll resume...

 

They are one and the same issue. As the executive branch enjoys pleinary power, the DOJ cannot logically prosecute a sitting President. But if he is successfully impeached and removed from office, then he can be. The issue is less about the impeachment, that's a red herring. It's more critical to decide if Trump's actions on the 6th were Presidential actions.

If no, then whether impeached or not, or 'immune' or not, doesn't make a difference. The President is only lawfully immune to Presidential actions.

Simple and easy.

 

OK... good... you have narrowed it down to the impeachment/criminal issue and not the 14th amendment issue.

Seems these are the outstanding questions this court is considering...

1. Were Trumps actions on and around 1/6 and overturning the election part of his duties. (A = of course not)
2. Can a former president be charged criminally for actions/commands while President that fall outside of his duties (A = of course)
3. Can a former president be charged criminatly for actions/commands while President that fall inside his duties (Seal Team 6 scenario....I think so, but it has to be case by case)
4. Does he first have to be impeached to do either 2 or 3? (A = of course not)