Turning Jesus into God

Hold on there fella - What evidence ?

This could well be the case - I just do not see the evidence pointing to this.

The story told to us in Mark - the first page of the NT Bible - is the classic "God adopts a human saga" who becomes divine - AFTER - going through some ritual where the individual is tested in some way.

That said - there is a ton of agrarian lore that was glommed into Judaism -and into Christian lore .. Take the celebration of Ishtar that Christians engage in every year .. didn't even bother to change the name - just continued on with the celebration - the annual fertility celebration .. celebration of death and rebirth - and substituted Jesus for Ishtar ... except we still call this celebration "Ishtar" not Jesus.

I do miss the naked virgins dancing around the fire though - hence the phrase "The Good ol Days"

If it happened at all - it was a very quick process - The nature of Christs divinity was a subject of debate among the Disciples - even as Jesus walked the earth. They may well of thought he was one of the ancient God's reborn .. but by the time the author of Mark is writing - around 60 AD - Jesus was a man who was made divine at 30 - at his baptism - and the divinity of Jesus in the Gospels grows from there.

In Matt we have a virgin Birth - increasing the divine nature .. such that Jesus was never a regular man - as in Mark - but divine from Birth.
In Matt we also have a Physical resurrection - Jesus returning in the flesh after death.

None of this is present in the original story -

Around the turn of the century we have the writing of John - The divinity of Jesus is further increased .. Jesus is made to pre-exist with God - before birth .. likened to an emanation from the Godhead - "The Logos" the messenger/mediator between God and Man.. hence the term "Jesus was the word" .. Jesus was the conduit - by which Gods word was revealed - by this terminology - in which all people at the time were well versed .. which was the whole point of the author using this term .. to increase the appeal of Christianity by using ideas with which the people of the day were familiar.

 

The story tellers told a wonderful fairy tale but if the Jesus character was still wiggling on the cross it would be more convincing.

 

but - Thanks for coming out

 

If it doesn't matter, why are you hyperventilating? Not that I feel the need to convince you of anything but I'll simply add that Jesus HIMSELF clearly told the Jews of Israel when He was among them that He was GOD.

John 8:58
"Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?” 58“Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple area.…"

He is the CREATOR God:
"All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made."

You are correct in one aspect... if you don't believe, then He doesn't "matter" to you. That's your choice. Everyone makes their own choice.

 

Do not start projecting your your heart palpitations onto me por favor

and Jesus never stated that he was God - The one passage you put up can be interpreted many ways - is from a much later Gospel - and stands against tens of examples of Jesus stating otherwise..

If one reads any Bible Concordance worth its salt - Bible Encyclopedia - it will state that the Trinity Doctrine is not expressed in the NT - at least not directly.

What we do find - expressed directly - is Jesus stating over and over - that the Father is someone other than himself - a personage other than himself - distinct and separate from the father - albeit usually united in purpose.

and then you go on about some "If you don't BELIEVE - he doesn't matter to you" nonsense .. in a desperate attempt to build a strawman and demonize the messenger .. because you can not handle the message.

You are in a bigger league now Padawan - those silly apologies that work on the Fundamentalist crowd don't cut it.

If I don't believe "WHAT" .. you made the accusation - at least answer this much .. as you will be completely helpless to answer the rest coherently.

 

No quote?
I need a quote, Id be very interested to see what dictionary would go to the such extremes to violate the rules of grammar with their personal politics?..... or did you just make that up and pretend it came from a dictionary?

 

They neither believe nor disbelieve in a G/god.

If you dont believe me ask any newborn if they believe in G/god, then come back and let me know what they said

Atheism is the doctrine or belief that there is no god.

However, an agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves in a god
https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/

 

Jesus almost starved to death because no one hared food with him for forty days.

Isaiah went naked and barefoot for three years and no one gave him a rag or sandals to wear.

Remember, God causes all of your suffering. So, if you comfort the sick aren't you insulting God?

Deuteronomy 28:27-28 (CEB) = 27 The Lord will afflict you with Egyptian inflammation, hemorrhoids,[a] rash, and itch. You will be untreatable.28 The Lord will make you go crazy, make you blind, make your mind confused.

 

google, first response, they had no link to it

 

God sends the afflictions of the world upon us to make us worthy citizens of heaven. We are billets of steel, God is a blacksmith and the tribulations sent upon us are his hammers. This life is a forge and God uses it to turn us into fine masterworks that he may be proud to see walking the Streets of Glory

 

Examine the words themselves. "a" no / negation "theist" God. An atheist believes there is NO GOD. It is a positive statement of negation.

"A" no / negation but then NOT god but "gnosis"; knowledge. No Knowledge, the atheist has no knowledge as to whether God exists or not. He DOES NOT KNOW

 

Jesus was the Platonic Demiurge, is that the case?

C.S. Lewis thinks that the really unique thing about Jesus is that he is seen as a historical figure, thus Christianity's mythology is incorporated into actual history, giving it a verisimilitude no other religion has.

 

Can you explain further what this P-Demi is ?

 

Who exactly is pushing atheism as a religion? You love to mislabel people according to your preconceived false stereotypes and projections. Why? Can you not entertain a view different than yours without labelling it with one of your all or nothing simplistic false labels? You are so busy telling people what you think they think or believe you can't hear a damn thing. You still haven't figured out a person like you who talks can't listen at the same time. Figure it out man. Your labels are petulant or snitty. Many of the people you debate with including me are not atheist

 

Wherever Dennis Tate my wierd guru man is you know where I stand on this. I am a Pisatarian. I turned Pisa into a religion.
Now Dennis you being a zany creative Christian at least I can talk to you about it. The fact I do not interpret the trilogy or concept of messiah as do certain traditional Christians does not mean I can't understand why they do that way or make me an atheist or is why I believe I molest people spiritually if I force my views on them.

I studied with modern Christian theologians who I guess Dennis some would call gnostic but they don't degrade the concepts of Christianity they just term it in terms that the superhero story was added and not meant to be literal but allegorical. I think many of us do that with Judaism and all religions we read-doesn't mean we put them down, in fact it makes them just as important in their own way.

It means someone like you would never tell me I am going to hell and it would mean I would never question certain things you hold dear to your beliefs and I may not go inside to praywith you because I do not like any organized prayer but I would be glad to help you clean your place of worship or help build back up a house burned down and show you that way I am your friend and ally.

Best way to show someone you are religious is help them clean or build if you ask me not order them to do anything. I am telling you Dennis I am one of the best rubbish cleaners ever born. I do not mean to brag but I was made to sweep, put man I can put stuff in bags and bury things. Some of us have a gift for cleaning up an dnot freaking out or vomiting and others create. What can I say. You should see some of the latrines I could dig. Man I am not bragging but I can make a mean toilet. I mean you would be amazed how efficient my ditches are Dennis. Geez these holy posts get to me. I prefer inter-dimensional Christians like you or Pisa like peoples. What do I know.

 

Thanks I wasn't. I was born uncircumsized though. That much I know. Then some dude gave me a snip. I can remember exactly. I said what the phack are you doing and he said shut up Moses told me to do it. When I found out who Moses was I wanted to ask him what the hell was he up too then I figured it out. You get sand in there its a bugger. Religion. Bah.

 

I am re-editing my response to Fresh Air. I meant to be rhetorical but not direct it at him. It came out as if I was questioning him personally. I meant it in rhetorical generic terms for us all like this, so sorry:

Who exactly is pushing atheism as a religion? Yah we can love to mislabel people according to our preconceived false stereotypes and projections. Why? Can we not entertain a view different than our own without labelling it all or nothing simplistic false labels? Why are we are so busy telling people what they think or believe> Why is it we still haven't figured it out a perdson who talks can't listen at the same time?

Sorry Fresh Air. I meant it as a general rhetorical issue but it came out directed at you by writing error. Its not at all specific to you.

 

you just described agnosticism. babies are agnostic until some loon tries to push mythology on them.

 

I defer to thine clarification Buri. I get you now. I would say people are born without any religious views until someone starts conditioning them into them. I get you now. Buri I was and remain a heathen. I do not know about you but when I was slapped on the ass I started with the profanities and never have stopped. Why the hell when I was born did some idiot try hang me upside down and slap my butt? What idiot does that? I was a baby. He could have dropped me on my head? did he ask me? Its bad enough he stuck liquid in my eyes. Let me also tell you something. I wanted a bottle immediately. No way I sucked my mother's breasts. That is for communist perverts.

 

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Not really, look it up. I was unclear as to what Gnosticism was until very recently.

 

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LOL
Cant really blame them, I certainly wouldnt want associate any credit for that over the top foolishness.

agreed. however its impossible not to, big bang theory requires as much faith as believers have. Worse all culture derives from religion, hence the simple moral of do unto others as you would have them do unto you is a moral preogative, which is a religious element.

 

No.

There is more evidence of the Big Bang than any theory. We have tons of evidence for it, and none for any form of creationism.

the "do unto others" came from early Confucian period, and requires no deity.

 

that was a reply to Kokomojojo

not sure what your issue is, I never claimed you were an atheist or a theist, that is your choice to make, just don't try to force your beliefs on other via the government

I am 100% pro-choice when it comes to religion, the government should not be choosing for you

 

Well .. If you are using this term -and you don't know what it is - perhaps you might want to look it up yourself .. just sayin

but - I did read about this - have a vague recollection - something related to an emanation from the Godhead if memory serves.. and as such would be related to the Logos idea.

 

I did, and I still didn't really understand it. I have heard it vaguely compared to Jesus, and to the Holy Ghost but I'm not at all clear on how Gnosticism views either of them either. When I first read about it, years ago, I understood it to be a sort of 'bridge' between reality and "non-reality" whatever that is but why would that be necessary and how would it work anyway? Later I was told it had to do with the Trinity but the Trinity is THREE things and btw, isn't God just ONE God? ("Hear O Israel, the Lord Our God, the Lord is One") but you can't ask that because it's one of the Mysteries on the Rosary