Are secrets lies?

Discussion in 'Civil Rights' started by Robert, Jan 18, 2021.

  1. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have been watching The Circle the Movie.

    Tom Hanks and Emma Watson are both in the movie.
    It examines some of societies important issues.

    For one thing The Circle is similar to Steve Jobs when alive at Apple Computer. The Circle was made in the SF Bay Area.

    The Circle has a technology to watch people and record them.

    Emma tells Tom that secrets are lies. Tom is very pleased with this.

    I see what is happening to America today and it is leading to the English system of mass watching us all. The Circle is worth checking into.

    If you do not get what I am discussing, ask me. I am discussing your important right to privacy. This means others are not recording you. As it is, when crimes happen, we often want to examine the video, don't we?

    What do you think of her statement that secrets are lies?

    What is the circle movie about?
     
  2. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    No secrets are not lies. Lies are intentional false statements when the speaker/writer/whatever knows what the truth is. Withholding information is never a lie. It can be a deception, of which a lie is a subset, but it is not a lie itself.

    As to issues of privacy, the question holds no meaning, except in context. Failure to disclose a violation of privacy is a deception, and claiming to not violate privacy when you know you are, is indeed a lie. But the question posed is not limited to the realm of privacy.
     
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  3. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Government secrecy is usually all about hiding official crimes and blunders.

    Trump should pardon Assange before the feds find a way to Epstein him.
     
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  4. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you noticed, now you must keep secrets from Facebook, twitter, Google and Parler.
     
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  5. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    Lies are what people tell to hide secrets.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
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  6. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Where State Subsidized Corporations censor political speech democracy dies in the darkness.
     
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  7. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Is color a flavor?
    Education fails to teach clearly that literal and poetic meanings to words are not the same. Can we conceive of a situation where keeping a secret is effectively lying? Probably. Are "lie" and "secret" synonymous? No.
     
  8. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Similar to when homosexuality had to be hidden.
     
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  9. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This was the theme of the latter part of the Movie The Circle. I have to watch it again since at the end it seemed the young girl (actress Emma Watson of Harry Potter fame) agreed that secrets are lies.

    When I return to the movie, If I am incorrect I shall report what I find this time.

    Trump was accused of lying a lot. I never bought into that crap.
     
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  10. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It then was not paraded around as were it a virtue. My brother (deceased in 1984) was a homosexual and when he lived it was not fashionable to brag one is attracted to the same sex.
     
  11. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Secrets are usually, or at least often, the truth that embarrasses certain people.

    Government secrets are usually the truth they don't want the public to know.

    Lies are simply untrue statements.
     
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  12. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    Secrets are not lies.

    I have a secret.
    If you were to ask me if I have a secret I will admit that I have one.
    Ask me to reveal it and I will state that I will not.
    Ask me if anyone else knows my secret and I will admit that there are 5 people who know (though two may have forgotten that they have been told).
    Ask me if that secret is harmful to anyone, and I will reveal that the secret is not harming anyone either in its keeping or in its unlikely revelation.
    Ask me if I would reveal it to others and I will admit that I would under certain circumstances.

    Now if everything I've said above is true, how is that secret a lie?

    Make a correct guess as to what that secret is and confront me by saying "Is your secret about [subject] and I will lie and say "no".

    But that "no" was the lie, and not the secret itself. I told a lie, to conceal a secret.
     
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  13. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Is that you Joe? ;-)
     
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  14. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All of that may be totally true so let me pose this illustrative question.

    You took marriage vows and are married to her as of today.

    Without you knowing, she has been having sex with other men.

    Is her secret a lie?
     
  15. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Only if she is asked and denies it. But we've been very up front with him about the sex we've been having.
     
  16. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Secrets are indeed lies from the perspective of people who believe they are entitled to know those secrets.

    People who believe they are entitled to know the secrets of strangers are dangerous elitist control freaks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  17. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Incredibly simple solution. Don't use social media. Problem solved.
     
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  18. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    Her secret is not a lie. A lot of people confuse the object/information/deed that needs to be kept a secret with the secret itself.

    Her secret is not a lie. Her actions are a betrayal of marriage vows and violations of her partner's trust, and some if not all of the things she says to keep the secret from her partner *are* indeed lies. But the secret itself is not.

    Let's take your scenario a step further.

    Her secret is revealed and her and her partner divorce. She realizes that she traded one partner for another one who was less than a stellar human being. She learns her lesson and she (after a time of healing and self-reflection) goes back on the market looking for a new partner. She finds one and she simply states that her previous marriage fell apart due to mistakes made by her younger self and isn't really wanting to dwell upon a stupider time in her life. Her new partner accepts this and they go on to have a healthy, reasonably happy, "until death do you part" marriage.

    It's still the same secret protecting the same act. She didn't technically lie since she really doesn't want to look back on her younger and dumber years, but the secret is still there. The impact of it's revelation may have changed, the consequences might have, but the secret is still the secret.
     
  19. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is the meaning of partner?

    I was trying to insert you as a husband to a cheating wife. Not to impugn you at all. I impugned the cheating wife.

    This explanation by you means I must now go to the wedding vows she and her husband took. Did she promise him fidelity of her marriage? Most vows I heard of have this promise included.
     
  20. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Facebook, Twitter and Youtube are trying to eliminate republicans as speakers.

    I walk on egg shell on Facebook not to piss them off.
     
  21. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So she is entitled to sex with others as long as her husband keeps his mouth shut?
     
  22. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    May I get votes on the ABOVE COMMENTS?
    Vote and reveal your political party please

    The goal is to find out if party makes a bit of difference in the voting outcome.

    Let's erect goal posts
    A: the secret is kept from a loved one as opposed to a stranger.
     
  23. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    What a shame. You started off with a very interesting topic regarding an issue we all grapple with, privacy, but now it has taken a turn for more partisan bs. This is why we can't have any meaningful discussions around here; it's always about the Rs and Ds, Left vs Right.
     
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  24. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which party did I damage?

    The goal is to find out if party makes a bit of difference in the voting outcome.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  25. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump did not pardon Assange. Assange is an Australian Citizen.
     

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