Good Ole Joe Biden Is Pro-Worker

One sided in what way? And so what? My GM won't work without a contract? Why should the workers?

 

Unions make it fair.

 

A worker has a "contract"; he makes an agreement on hiring. If he wants that in writing, no problem. Bear in mind, A contract specifies something for something- legally it cannot be a one-sided deal. Failure of either side to meet their obligation is grounds for lawsuits and damages. Nor can it be a coerced condition, where if you don't sign, you can't do business- or can't work. When you consider it as a legal definition of the terms of a fair and equal deal- you leave all union deals behind; they never make such deals. The unions want to quit work as a conspiracy between all employees, and prevent the company from hiring replacements or doing business. They put up pickets, which usually result in people such as truck drivers from other unions refusing to deliver materials. Extortion and conspiracy to harm the business, plain and simple- AND TOTALLY ILLEGAL FOR ANYONE EXCEPT UNIONS TO DO. Every unions I've ever run across has shown more in common with Mafia than with equal justice.

So- IF I sign an agreement with a union, I want the same control over the union people as they want over me. They can't work for some other place when they won't work for me, I can get together with other businesses and shut them out. I can conspire with other business people such as the plumber or roofer, and they will refuse to work at your house, and the grocer won't sell to you because you refuse to work at my business and want to refuse the same rights to me. All fair and square that way, because we both have the same rights. You have no objections to that, do you?? Of course you don't, because you favor justice for all.

IF you don't like the terms of employment offered to you- refuse the job. IF you don't like the job or the pay or the management- QUIT, Go somewhere else that will make you happy.
But you can bet that nobody is going to work for me and work against me at the same time. If you aren't ON my team in full spirit- you're not going to be on my team at all.

 

I know you won't acknowledge it, but business doesn't treat workers fairly unless their forced to.

 

What you write is reasonable, and I'm sure there are union contracts somewhere that stipulate your demands.

Unions have to operate the way they do because individually, a worker has little power.

I work in a non union shop, and management is free to change policy, ignore policy, or come up with whatever they want whenever they want, and they do. That's why a contract is needed.

 

It will have the same considerations as any business expense, such as rent, utilities, equipment, insurance, etc.

 

So says someone who has zero understanding of how the supply-and-demand economy works.

 

Not if they don't add sufficient value to a good or service.

And "pro union" is NOT "pro worker".

 

So you are in favor of slavery???

 

Some don't- but then, the same is true of workers.... only on a much wider scale. This is like kids arguing- Who started it?
When you carry the attitude in the door- you did. If you treat your employer with respect, you will probably get respected in return. IF that employer does not treat you fairly- leave. It's that simple. You wouldn't continue doing business with someone who cheated you unless you were a fool, and the same goes for the employer. Like it or not, our labor laws give you all kinds of advantages and benefits, most of which your employer must pay for- and yet most employees act like you and think that employers are evil people. You wear that in the door- and expect them to trust you and treat you with respect- and then if you're not, it's all their fault.

Virtually every employer has been an employee- he knows what the conditions are. But very few employees have been employers- so they are assuming they know, when in fact they are ignorant of the position employers have. Go out and start your own business, and see for yourself. As the old rule say, you shouldn't judge anyone until you have walked a mile in their shoes.

As a businessman, I learned long ago that I didn't want all the business- I only wanted to do business in situations where when we were done, both sides would be happy and the relationship was profitable.
Thus- I learned how to read character. I only hired people who I thought would be good for us, and we good for them. I turned away jobs for clients that I thought were people of poor character, that I would wind up wishing I'd never worked for. You should do the same. You and your employer are making a deal- you selling services, him buying them. IF you aren't going to be happy- don't take the deal. Your responsibility.

 

And are you not free to quit at any time you are unhappy? YOU have more power over the services you sell them than they do. Show yourself to be worth more- and if they don't pay you more, move on.

You need to see the relationship from their side as well as your own, and damn few employees do- which is why so many are mediocre and don't see their careers grow. They worry a lot about what they can get, and not enough about deserving it. Those that do are highly appreciated and valued. Those that don't, are just filling in until someone that does comes along.

 

In most cases, those who start a business can make a living without your labor- but it would be small, and they like to build. So they invite you to participate- makes jobs for people.... often, people that could not make it on their own, and need someone to make the wheels turn and the business work, while they do their best to get the most they can for doing the least they can.

Good labor is a valuable thing- and gets paid well. Mediocre however is cheap and expendable, replaceable with the next warm body coming through the door. Be exceptional, and you become valuable. Then- you are superior to those who think it's all owed to them because after all, they do exist.

As I have over 50 years in business and have founded 8 companies, two of them totally from scratch without funding, and now have clients in over 110 nations- I may have just a little more experience that you do in this area. You on the other hand, did what- Read a book?

 

No alot of people aren't, they have little savings and rent and bills must be paid.

 

So I don't take the job and then rent and bills don't get paid and I'm out on the street.

 

I see both sides.

This is about bargaining and a contract. Indeed, both sides deserve a contract. Our customers have a contract. Our suppliers have a contract. Our service providers have a contract. Our outside techs have a contract. Our managers have contracts. We don't.

Now why don't you apply everything you said about workers, which is a slanted generalization in my experience, and apply it to both sides. Either we use contractual agreements for business operations or we don't. IMO, if it's good enough for my boss, it's good enough for me.

The problems you describe - which are simple human frailties - can be controlled with a union contract. What people don't stop to think about is that a union contract protects the company as well. All contracts protect all parties. People get taken, and others have an upper hand, but a well negotiated union contract protects both parties. It eliminates, or severely inhibits collusion between managers and employees. This could be simple favoritism to illegal activity, both of which I've witnessed in spades over the last 15 years in my shop. A contract sets production standards. Those who fail to meet the standards are fired. Attendance policy is contractually enforced, not left to managers, who pick and choose who to fire and when. That's just a few.

I'm aware of what happens when unions become too powerful. They peaked in the '70s, and we saw high inflation. I agreed with Reagan putting the brakes on; what I disagree with is our adversarial system of politics which results in denial of the reality of the pendulum, from both sides.

It's past time to swing back toward the working class. I doubt union membership will increase by any significant amount. So, we're left with government solutions to put the brakes on, just like Reagan, in the opposite direction. I'd prefer everyone was in a union, took an interest in their trade, and participated in negotiations for their demands - just like our sales team does with our customers, albeit two very different types of negotiations. I think all workers should have a contract.

 

Big corporation propaganda. They can afford to pay more while their competitors, small business, can not. Looks like "good ol' Joe" is in the pocket of corporations.

 

Silly statement.

 

Exactly. While wholesale exploitation doesn't occur like it did in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the reality of survival always favors the wealthy and well to do.

 

Sounds fair to me.

 

Of course it would.

 

Well, guess what. Every business has those same issues. I started my first business with an old pickup, some hand tools and the last paycheck from a job I quit. I convinced some local suppliers to trust me with small credit lines, and the owner of a small building to let me move in and open my store- then pay the first rent (no deposit) after I had sold something. I never borrowed or ask for help to get started, I toughed it.
Not only do your rent and bills keep coming, but every payday you have to figure out how to access enough cash to meet payroll- which you must do before you can pay yourself anything. And- the people who are your employers (who are called customers) are mostly occasional buyers- and you need many of them, so you must hunt for new jobs every day- and that never ends. Many also do not pay you as agreed, and so you must be a bill collector as well to stay alive. IF you endure this long enough and learn well enough, your business may do well- but 50% of new businesses fail within 5 years.

Now tell me again how tough is it to have a job that is there everyday, a paycheck that is always on time, a paid vacation, insurance against your losing your job and being hurt on the job, and your customer paying into your retirement fund- and having no need to lie awake at night trying to figure out how to keep your business alive.

Financial management is a skill; it requires constant self-discipline, the ability to be frugal, to find ways to lower your costs and increase your value. IF you aren't willing to do that, you can be in desperate condition no matter how much you make. Regardless of your being in business or an employed individual, that is what determines your financial status and your ability to grow.

 

Well guess what, that still doesn't negate the fact that most people can't pick and choose what job they have.

 

The problem is that unions want one-sided deals; they never offer anything tangible in terms of performance, but they want top money and all kinds of protections- IN RETURN FOR NOT SHUTTING DOWN YOUR BUSINESS. Today, my business is specialize and it's not a problem But when I was in a mainstream business, i've seen picket signs on my jobs many, many times over a five year period. I've had them warn me that accidents happen and I could break my legs, and I've told them that in such an accident my pistol might go off by accident and hurt bystanders. The list of crap I've seen them pull is so ludicrous and offensive that any man of character would tell them "hell no".

A genuine contract is a good faith agreement. You do what you agree to do- I do what I agree to do. It cannot be a one-sided deal- and that is precisely what they want. The multitude of laws already covering employment and protecting unions makes it possible for them to impose that. This is something that politicians have allowed because quite simply, there are a lot more employees than employers, thus a lot more voters that want you to give them unfair advantage.

Fact is that between honorable people- big jobs can be sealed with a handshake, because both will be fair. In theory, a contract is only the written version of a negotiated and voluntary deal. Once coercion and extortion become part of it, such a contract is only a weapon, a permit to act unfairly. It's unfortunate that we need such things at all, but that is the state of the human condition- there are not enough honorable people, whose word is actually a better bond than any contract. I've known many of those people, and they are a joy to work for or do business with.