What are your views on abortion?

What if we take a look at women in their specific situations?

or do you want to write them a blank check

 

Why do you care? They chose it, so it safe to assume tjey did need it.

 

And, YOU weere worried about being like the Nazis a few pages back.

 

Yeah, I wonder how well that will work out for society, if everyone is responsible for correcting only themselves...

Most pro-choicers don't even believe that

 

And you are an abortion proponent??


Just admit, you have some logical double standards.

 

I absolutely and totally reject this accusation.

And, I'd point out that persons (as referenced by our constitution) have major rights of bodily autonomy.

Persons can refuse treatment that would assure they would live even though refusal means certain death.

Persons can refuse to grant donations of blood and organs even though that refusal means someone else dies.

Information about one's personal health status is private, and allowing it to leak to the public or to government can be a criminal offense.

On the other side, those under the age of 18 can have their personal health care desires overridden by parents or guardians even if it is known that it will result in death.

Medical decision making is very serious. It is not taken lightly. And, it is highly centered on the individual or their legal guardian.

 

That's still not such a good argument here.

I doubt they will let a parent withhold essential life saving treatment from their child, when that child is expected to make a full recovery and be completely normal.

In most legal jurisdictions, they will temporarily take away freedoms from suicidal persons. The right to death is currently not seen as an absolute and always medical right.

 

Now, you want the courts involved, too!!

You have GOT to be kidding.

 

We've had threads on how this would apply to conjoined twins. (i.e. two persons sharing the same body or inextricably connected)

 

False on your second paragraph.

Hospitals do not ignore advanced directives or statements of refusal of aid.

There are religious sects that refuse to allow transfusions and have major restrictions on organ donation.

There are those who are OK with organ transplants, but the operation has to be done on a "bloodless" basis - allowing no transfusion during the medical procedures, which is a serious impact on success rate.

When expressed by the individual or legal guardian, these religious wishes are honored, including when it leads to death.

Also, 8 states and DC have "death with dignity" acts or have precedent that assures physicians may help with death.

 

Yeah, but I think something has to be seriously medically wrong. (I'm not sure)
like you have to be in serious chronic pain that is not expected to go away, or you have to have little chance of recovering.

Not always. It is a bit situational.
The doctors will only bend to religious wishes so far.
If you think otherwise, you are misinformed.
The chances that they will refuse to perform a blood transfusion are higher if the child is old enough to talk and expresses their wishes for such. They're not going to refuse to perform a transfusion because of the parents if the child sides with the doctor on that, if the doctor deems it very important and necessary.

 

Having an abortion isn't always safe either.

 

The question should really be more what are the expected risk differences between continued pregnancy and abortion, not just merely what is the risk of pregnancy.

(And factor in the increased risk of suicide after abortion and it really doesn't look good)

 

I don't know why you keep asking this question over and over again.

My answer doesn't vary based on how rudely you manage to state the question.

And, I don't know who your "we" is that should "take a look", but I don't agree with that idea AT ALL - as I've made clear.

And, I'm not going to attempt to "take a look" at YOUR personal health care decisions.

 

I already responded to this, and you didn't include anything about that response.

You just blew it off!!

You can do that, of course. But, it's a clear indication that you can not defend your position against very clear issues that you position includes.

There are suicides on both sides of this issue.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't see that.
can you give me a link to your response? (I know it might be hard to find)

 

Someone, anyone, who is an unbiased third party observer, and can prevent the worse forms of abuses from taking place.

Also someone who's not necessarily a radical pro-choice or pro-life activist, but is there to try to strike reasonable accommodation for the woman.

 

Can you show me a story of one woman that has committed suicide due to being forced to give birth (after the birth) ?
I doubt you will be able to find any.

How about any studies?

 

I don't even know what that means.

Tell me about what laws on abortion this would work under, how these people would be recruited and paid, and what you mean by "reasonable accommodation for the woman".

My bet is that the woman already knows that "reasonable accommodation" means to her.

If this is the result of a rape, the woman may know that there is no chance of willingly carrying the rape fetus to term. She may prefer suicide. Or, maybe she knows that she IS going to carry the fetus to term.

So, government assigns someone to this person. What happens when the woman refuses, because she already knows the answer?

What happens to the doctor?

I just plain have NO belief that what you mean by "accommodation" is anything other than a LAW AGAINST WOMEN, executed on pain of prison.

 

So I guess if a mother feels the NEED to kill her born kid, then you would also say that it's safe to assume they did need it.

 

A green light to do what?

 

Rape victims are already prone to suicide. This is a well known fact. You can look to any journal covering this issue.

And, those suicides are not limited to after birth.

The point here is that threat of prosecution and denial of abortion can not possibly reduce the number of these suicides. It is one more threat. Suicide isn't reduced by adding threat.

 

This topic is about abortion. The topic is limited to fetuses.

 

Does that mean that the system is taking away women's right to their body?

 

Abortion is also killing a life. Clearly you find my point quite challenging! Mothers who kill their born kid might say that they needed to because it was too difficult having a kid!