Ireland is back at the bottom of the EU pile now that Brexit is over.

Yes when you get back to the real world and stop changing the subject , let me know.

I mean I expect you to justify that the EU is hostile to the outside world by explaining how it made over 60 trade agreements with "the outside world" and which you couldn't wait to steal ...how it sits on and hosts major international meetings and organisations and works closely with NATO.

I don't discuss such things with those who change the subject in order to try to catch onto something that works for them.

Now what was that you said about Ireland not being important to the EU?

 

Why are you exercised by the EU not using English?
Every delegate of whatever part of the EU has an automatic translator into their own language and all paperwork is translated.

ISTM you have a tenuous grip on what your favourite poison is...

 

Is French MEPs refusing to speak English care about Ireland?
Is invoking article 16 without telling Ireland first caring about Ireland?


Does refusing to buy British seafood or American automobiles make the EU good customers?
When the EU buys as well as sells, then we can talk. EU seems to think trade deals are for selling only.
EU and Canada have CETA, Canadian cattle farmers invested extra time and money into exporting beef products to the EU only to have the EU market turn around and not buy beef from Canada reared to EU standard.
EU trade deals aren't in the interest of both parties.

 

So why not just speak English?

Why refuse to speak English when Ireland request this?

 

I see you are shifting the subject again...still trying to gain some traction.

The issues you mention are governed by the non tariff rules that are included in the terms and conditions set out in membership of the single market.
You are no longer part of the single market .
As a third country you have to follow the rules just the same as any other third nation.
Those include phytosanitary conditions and rules of origin.
and I suggest you let the negotiators decide what benefits their side of the deals they make. ISTM you don't have the credentials to pass judgements on international trade.
Suck it up.

 

Because the EU is democratic and Ireland in one in 27.
Not quite a majority...

 

Because the EU is intolerant and doesn't have a standard language, however, I maintain, what Ireland has to deal with in the EU is up to Ireland and nobody is forcing them to be EU.

Canada have a deal with the EU, but the EU still aren't buying from Canada.

Just tell Canadian Cattle Farmers to "suck it up" as you say because they're outside of the EU's club when the EU doesn't buy even though time and money was invested to get product ready for the EU market.

Inward looking, the EU isn't about global trade, just European protectionism and isolation.

When it's sale time, EU doesn't buy.
Who needs trade deals with the EU when it's just a way for the EU to dump on other markets and not buy?

 

When EU buys globally instead of sells, then we can call the EU trading partners who buy as well as sell.

Maybe EU buys a Canadian cow because of CETA, or a British fish because of the Brexit deal, or an American car where there is no FTA but because of common decency of not just selling, but buying too - How about EU actually buying something for a change? Tho xenophobes just don't trust products from outside the EU it seems. They don't want to buy, just sell; how long can that last for, how long can EU expect the world to buy EU when it doesn't buy from the rest of the world?

How can you defend the EU's reputation for not buying at sale time when it signs deals for 2 way trade but barely buys from third party countries it has deals with?

You suggested UK not being EU's land bridge for Ireland and the rest of the bloc was a bad thing, why?
Less jobs? Those jobs weren't British to begin with.
You changed from talking about Ireland to talking about EU trade, not me.

You don't have to be in the EU to sell to the EU, something the EU doesn't realise, because of their attitude towards non EU countries of 'suck it up' making for a very hostile market.

 

I am done here.
You are not honest enough to go back to your original post about Ireland being of no use to the EU and continue by posting factually false assumption and misinformation with no connection to reality. Or indeed the previous post!

This:
When EU buys globally instead of sells, then we can call the EU trading partners who buy as well as sell.

Is ridiculous. The EU sells to nations around the world and buys from them IF they meet EU standards. Do some research.
Then go and read up on the rules relating to both the single market and the Customs Union which apply to all those who are not signed up to them.
The EU does a huge amount of trade both ways across the globe. Do you think any country would sign a deal if they didn't also profit by it, which means the others have a huge market willing to buy their goods????
The EU does not buy US/Canadian beef because there are rules in the single market about the issue of antibiotics and animal welfare which the US does not follow.
IOW it is not of good enough quality. and that was one reason the FTA TTP talks collapsed. Ditto chicken and other phystosanitary products.

The UK negotiators knew what the rules are...if the didn't they shouldn't have been negotiating.

IOW you don't have a clue and are making it up as you go along.
I'm out.

 

In theory, but in practise, Canadian cattle farmers raising cattle the EU way for Canadian beef products to the EU are finding that the EU doesn't buy this product for their market at sale time.
This is costing the friendly Canadian farmer time and money lost for investing into the EU market by penning and rearing cattle the EU way, only to have the EU not buy at sale time.
In practise, the UK are faced with EU red tape for leaving the club, so it's self evident the EU aren't the best customers.
Back on topic now, Ireland, are being treated by the EU council as useful for Brexit, but when the first hurdle happens, a self inflicted mix up over the vaccine order, the EU invoked Article 16 of the Brexit Deal before revoking it just as rashly, without even telling Ireland first.
French MEPs are at war with speaking English in the EU when it's a good universal language.

It's Ireland prerogative to be in the EU, then so be it.

 

Sadly, I think you are right.

 

@Pixie believes the EU is a good buyer, and ignores the plight of Canadian farmers who farm for the EU only to have the EU not buy.

Why she began talking about UK as a land bridge in this topic I'd never know, but she ought to bare in mind that her inability to back up her claims or derail threads will get her no where.

This thread is about Ireland being in the EU by choice and still being ignored by the EU; not to hear her theories on EU buying when people produce for the EU because cattle farmers in Canada can tell her that's all bunk and only applies in theory.

When mince meat on the shelves is Canadian, then she can talk, but the fact is the EU are buying less than 3% of the allotted quota because of EU's xenophobic buying habits making them a reluctant buyer costing producers is paramount in the subject she decided to raise.

@Montegriffo , please don't encourage her, she's all Pro EU and because that's a sentiment you share, doesn't mean she's correct to derail this thread or justified in making a claim (that if you produce for the EU the EU will buy) without backing it up or ignoring the evidence to counter.

I think @Pixie is biased so she doesn't look at the complaints Canada have with the EU and CETA and is confused because she began talking about EU moving goods within the EU as an attempt to gloat on UK no longer being used a route. I can only stress 'good' whenever the EU has to bypass the UK to conduct its own business; less traffic on the roads, less pollution in the air without hauliers cutting through the UK between Ireland and the rest of the bloc.

 

That would be a first.

I think she's just blind to the truth.

 

@Pixie


This is what you should learn; producing for the EU doesn't mean the EU keep their end of the deal.

EU aren't concerned with buying global, just selling, so I wonder, who needs a trade deal with them?
They're xenophobic and protectionist; unwilling to purchase food outside of the EU (despite it being EU standard) and protectionist in buying European.

When beef in the supermarket is Canadian, then Pixie can talk about how the EU would buy if it's made for the EU market; but I bet she find no Canadian beef at the supermarket.

Now I ask @Pixie; why doesn't she stick on topic and comment about Ireland's lot in the EU being useful for Brexit and ignored the rest of the time; because I don't know why she started to talk about trade, or why she denied the truth; I guess it's what happens when you become French; you just surrender at the drop of a hat and be like 'I don't want to play', and she cannot tell me otherwise based on her own conduct here.

The decent thing would be to have a counter, than to argue it, not just claim it and then walk away ignoring evidence brought. @Pixie, should do her research, instead of telling me how things work in Theory, learn what's happening in the world with the EU and their failure to buy and desire to only sell.

After Brexit came into effect this year, the UK joined a list of countries around the world who have the same complaint about the EU, they are difficult to sell to; UK has a FTA, Canada have a FTA, so the EU shouldn't be turning back our fish or wasting Canadian Farmer's time and money.

The EU cannot expect to sell to the world and not buy, and I hope countries make that complaint to stop the EU from only buying EU; until beef in the supermarket is Canadian, the EU is a protectionist racket who only wants to sell and not buy.

 

Please don't derail this thread.

Stick to talking about Ireland in the EU or kindly refrain from ruining this thread with your confusion.

 

http://www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-10-exports/

Going to look into this further... But I am with Rhetoric here I think.

Ireland don't really seem to be manufacturing or exporting anything that isn't widely produced in Mainland Europe.. Add to that their new location, 'The other side of the UK to where Europe is.

I could see why the EU wouldn't be so bothered about Ireland in truth.

 

"The latest available country-specific data shows that 86.3% of products exported from Ireland were bought by importers in: United States (30.1% of the global total), Belgium (11.4%), Germany (11.1%), United Kingdom (9.3%), China (6.3%), Netherlands (5.4%), France (3.2%), Italy (2.9%), Switzerland (2.1%), Japan (1.7%), Spain (1.5%) and Greece (1.1%)."

By those figures.. 33.7% of Irish exports are to The EU.. So roughly a third of its exports, to a Union it is a member of.

Now combine USA and the UK.. 39.4%

Surely language plays a part in that right?

Why ship across the Atlantic Ocean when you have a free trade market significantly closer.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-10-imports/

"From a continental perspective, 73.1% of Ireland’s total imports by value in 2020 were purchased from fellow European countries. North American trade partners supplied 14.2% of import Ireland’s import purchases while 10.8% worth originated from Asia. Much smaller percentages of Irish imports came from Latin America (1%) excluding Mexico but including the Caribbean, Africa (0.4%) then Oceania (0.2%) led by Australia and New Zealand."

73.1% of Ireland's imported goods are from EU countries

So Ireland exports 33.7% and imports 73.1% in the EU. A swing of 39.4%

Rhetoric has a very good point regards this...

The EU don't really need Ireland for anything, apart from to sell to them.. A client state with a mere population of 5 million.

In fact, looking at the figures... Ireland would be probably better off without them too.

 

I would venture to say that having a good market to sell to is having a useful member of the EU.
For the less aware, it helps production in the EU.

I have no idea why Rhetoric confuses Ireland being useful to the EU with the EU not buying from Canada...tho that is not true. Much of that trade goes thru the WTO due to not having an FTA.
What the EU buys from Canada is irrelevant to Ireland. Ireland doesn't have to buy meat from Canada, it has some pretty good beef of its own. They are not obliged to buy anything.

Statements like "Ireland is of no use to the EU" re sophomoric and totally inaccurate. I gave you reasons why it remains useful and refuted your empty excuses why you contradicted yourself. You never considered that even if the language spoken in EU meetings is Outer Hebridean Celtic, it doesn't matter; it is automatically translated. As is all paperwork.
and finally Ireland is even more important to the EU. Ireland is saving the EU producers shedloads of money in customs duties and taxes as it avoids the UK landbridge which the UK has to pay and thus causing the UK products to be more expensive in the EU.

and all that my dear is fact. For all your avoiding it.

 

Ireland want to be in the EU, so if the EU council do anything on the island of Ireland without the courtesy of telling Ireland first (or the UK); it's on Ireland since Ireland aren't being forced into staying in the EU and it's on UK for signing a Brexit deal with the EU.

As for the Irish MEP asking the French MEP to speak English and the refusal to do so is only France pretending that having parts of Belgium also speak French somehow make French an important language

despite Ireland using English as well as the use of English growing globally. The problem with France refusing to speak English is that it's counter intuitive for the sake of French pride. Since Ireland want to be EU, this is what they get.
Maybe the French are just horrible and in general racist people to protest speaking English when there is no translation available when they're capable of speaking in English and the other party is unable to understand French.
You cannot deny that France has issues with racism even before we begin to probe their instance of being spoken to in French.

Ireland will fail in their bid to ban super trawlers from coming into Irish waters and wrecking the seabed and harming the biodiversity because these super trawlers are Dutch and Ireland is part of the Common Fisheries Policy; there is only one answer here;
Ireland cannot complain about anything since they have signed up to this in being in the EU; so they cannot be helped of sympathised with in their plight with the EU because it's their prerogative to be EU and subject to all of this.

The main binding issue here is Ireland's needs being ignored but that it's nothing that can be helped as it's their prerogative to be EU.

 

Ireland want to be in the EU, so if the EU council do anything on the island of Ireland without the courtesy of telling Ireland first (or the UK); it's on Ireland since Ireland aren't being forced into staying in the EU and it's on UK for signing a Brexit deal with the EU.

This makes absolutely no sense.
The Council is the group of heads of state of member states.
and the EU doesn't DO things on members' territory. How can the EU DO something that has to be approved twice, once by the council and once by the EU Parliament, without the member state knowing about it?? What would the EU DO?
The national territory is sovereign. The EU doesn't and can't sequester a part of a sovereign country and DO something on it!

and frankly your obsession with language is years old and nonsense. For the third time, everything is translated.
Look mate...I have visited the EU Parliament in Strasbourg and seen how plenary sessions work. In what context did some anoymous French person demand that English not be used?

and so what? What does that mean in the global context of the EU?

You wrote:
Ireland will fail in their bid to ban super trawlers from coming into Irish waters and wrecking the seabed and harming the biodiversity because these super trawlers are Dutch and Ireland is part of the Common Fisheries Policy; there is only one answer here;
Ireland cannot complain about anything since they have signed up to this in being in the EU; so they cannot be helped of sympathised with in their plight with the EU because it's their prerogative to be EU and subject to all of this.

This doesn't mean anything.
Ireland has not banned supertrawlers .
She has not complained about anything.
This issue does not exist in Ireland.
It may do in the UK but it doesn't involve Ireland.

Frankly you are discussing things you know nothing about.
You are all over the place. You tarted off ssaying the EU doens't need Ireland...need Ireland for what?
The EU doesn't "need" any country. Each one is sovereign and volunteers to be part of it. The EU doesn't trade...inidividual companies in each member state tr

 

The EU doesn't "need" any country. Each one is sovereign and volunteers to be part of it. The EU doesn't trade...individual companies in each member state trade under the same rules....the rules they democratically decide together.

I suggest you read up on what the Council, Commission and Parliament do and how laws are made. Then what competences the EU has.
Then get back to me in 6 months when you know what you are talking about.

 

Let me just tell you the time when the EU Council acted on Ireland without consulting Ireland since Brexit.
https://www.thejournal.ie/coveney-article-16-5341380-Feb2021/

We all know it happened, please do not try and use theory of how something should work in the EU to pretend the practise is different.

Yeah. I don't think you understand what actually happened with Ireland and Article 16 because the EU resorted to putting a hard border up on the Island of Ireland in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, without even telling Ireland first; your only argument it seems is that Ireland is the EU.

I am not your mate and we are not Australian, 'mate'.

I've met Lithuanians who's been to Moscow too, what's your point?
The EU Parliament is just as horrid as the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of old.
Did you know that MEPs since Covid use Zoom, and if you actually bothered to learn about the incident, you'd know that the Irish MEP asked the French MEP during a socially distanced EU meeting to which the French just refused to speak English as there was no translator around, any stories you have of going to the EU Parliament are both dull and pointless since it's not a real Parliament and doesn't have anything to do with the incident where the French MEP refused to use English at the request of the Irish MEP.

LOL, the only global context the EU has is with trading with itself (getting product from Ireland to the rest of the bloc) or trading with China (CAI).
I must remind you that the EU is still a reluctant customer and doesn't keep its end of trade deals buying non EU products made for the EU market.

The Global Context of the EU stops at the EU door and matters only within itself, and has to be reminded by everybody to stop its sabre rattling by Turkey, UK, Canada, Malayasia, Australia, USA, Russia, even China after China agreed to an investment deal with the EU told the EU to butt out of Chinese internal affairs when the EU probed the CCP on human rights;
The EU Ambassador in Russia was made a laughing stock and the UK doesn't even recognise the EU as a country so has refused diplomatic immunity to their person in London; since when did something meaning anything in the EU Global Context fly outside of the EU in the actual global context of the globe?
Brexit was about UK rejoining the world than leaving the EU, clearly you'd have to be taught this as this is something you're robbed of knowing stuck in France and the EU, and since the Irish would rather be in the EU, then no one can sympathise with them really even if Brussels doesn't care about Ireland since Ireland are no longer useful to the EU now that Brexit is concluded, have been put back in their place of not mattering to the EU.

 

I just landed on this thread and have some difficulty identifying what it is you are ranting about, or rather what is it, if anything, you are not ranting about.
Having gone quickly through your exchanges with Pixie, I tend to agree with her that you don't seem to know much about the matter.

Usually, when debating any matter whatsoever, it helps putting things in their context, which in this case means go back in the not so distant past.

I will not enter into the details, but I'd like to remind you that, until the end of 2020, the UK, as member of the EU, had equal say about every decision the EU was making.

In the early 2000s, UKIP started to make some scratches to the Conservative Party. As UK Prime Minister, David Cameron was worrying about his Conservatives majority, in order to appease some members of his own party, he eventually promised to hold a referendum about Brexit.

( I personally think it was a mistake, a big, big, big mistake. We'll discuss that later if you wish, but it has already become obvious I think.)

Cameron and the Conservatives won the next elections and Cameron kept his promise and organized the referendum. All types of arguments, good and bad were used by both sides during the referendum campaign, including some blatant lies that did tip the balance in favor of Brexit.

In order to try and part in good terms, in other words, to avoid what was called a hard brexit, UK and EU negotiated a deal, basically to keep a certain degree of free circulation of goods and services between them. Other issues, like persons free circulation, rights to work on the "other side" etc were also discussed but were resolved to the equal (in)satisfaction of both sides.

The goods and services free circulation bit was the most difficult: to make a quick comparison, the UK basically wanted to leave the Club while keeping the advantages of being a Club member.
For example, UK wanted to have the right to conclude separate commercial deals with non-EU countries. The EU obviously could not accept the continuation of the free circulation in that case: it would have meant that all goods and services freely entering the UK in the framework of such separate trade deal with, say the US, would be freely entering the EU and circulating within the EU. Impossible of course: as per the internal rules of the EU, all deals between the EU and other countries had to be negotiated and contracted by the EU, i.e. with the agreement of all member countries, since any such deal would affect all of them.

So, after years of discussions, it was decided that free circulation of goods and services between the UK and the EU would have some limitations/restrictions. That inevitably meant borders and customs controls.

However, the Brits were understandably reluctant to re-installing a border between Ireland (still a EU member) and Northern Ireland (still part of the UK, hence now outside the EU).

The EU said: fine, we understand, but we still need to have a border somewhere. So, finally it was decided that that border would be in the Irish Sea, between the Irish Isle and Great Britain (consisting, as you know, of England, Scotland and Wales), the Irish Island becoming de facto a member of the EU. That arrangement is understandably not very popular (maybe the understatement of the month) in the UK, particularly in Northern Ireland, the more so since Boris Johnson who acceped and signed the deal has long denied that fact.

(A similar but hardly comparable case , Gibraltar, also had to be solved. It was easier.)


On subject number 2, i.e. the fact that the EU wants to sell to, but is reluctant to buy from, other countries, I'll only say 3 things;
1. every country is trying to keep a positive trade balance;
2. except for some items, the EU, nor the members countries decide what the citizens want to buy; if the product is good and attractive, if the price is competitive, and, of course, if the product meets the standards imposed by the EU, people will buy it. Please note that EU countries citizens are used to buy "foreign" goods and services; germans buy spanish strawberries, french people buy german cars, dutch people buy french wines; I buy South African and Chilean wines as well as Argentinian beef. etc...etc...
3. selling outside your own country requires some investment, to create the distribution structure, but also to make your product known and appreciated by you prospective customers; it's not enough to say: the EU has signed a deaal for my beef, now you must buy it. If you have any notion of marketing, you should know that.


As for subject number 3, some obscure delegate refusing to speak English, you may be aware that there are idiots everywhere, even in the EU.
Now, rest assured that English, despite Brexit, remains the most common second language in all countries of the EU.

By the way, having read some of your posts above, I might want you to provide an english translation for certain sentences.

 

In English?

 

Yes, in English. Your posts are a collection of rants about an array of things totally unconnected and assembled in sentences that make no sense in English.
Your cocktail includes vaccines, canadian beef, english fish, obscure considerations about the french and English languages and what not. Is there any of these matters you might be able and willing to discuss in a clear and understandable way?