Sen. Joe Manchin, a key Democratic swing vote, is open to crafting a 'more painful' filibuster

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Egoboy, Mar 8, 2021.

  1. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    It used to work under a far different political climate.
    The filibuster has turned the only federal institution designed to legislate, into one that cannot legislate more than twice during a budget year on specific topics secondary to a Parlimentarian's call. There is almost nothing getting to the President's desk worth the money it cost to get it to the President's desk. This is not healthy.
     
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  2. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Agreed it's not healthy, but it's we citizens who permitted this unhealthy behavior in our political climate. We've got to put them on the record with statements like "We won't vote for someone who uses the filibuster for political games instead of voting on bills."

    It's the people's voice that's powerful and we(myself included) don't use it enough.
     
  3. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    I guess my only point was if you can't get a handful of votes from the other side is it really worth getting to the Presidents desk. What is needed is vote out the fringe and vote in more moderate Senators. This let's change because we can't get radical in doesn't work for either side and should be avoided at all costs during this climate.
     
  4. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    West VA has a tradition of voting for Blue Dog Democrat. Manchin is the probably the last of the Blue Dog Dems.

    The identification of people in WV with the Dem party goes back to the coal mine wars and labor movement.
     
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  5. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    . The filibuster was not imagined by the founders at all, who anticipated a simple majority in both houses would carry a bill to the President's desk That was the way things got done until the 1806 when this bizarre minority power came about as a side effect of a rule change. It was used incredibly rarely so that there was no real reason for worry for decades.

    I have sad news to report to you. Gerrymandering by state legislatures is what caused this mess by concentrating party votes where advantagious to the party in power or alternately diluting party voters elsewhere in pretzel shaped districts, and gerrymandering is going to accelerate thanks to the recent Supreme court decisions.

    Modern Mass media with its 24 hour coverage of news, has every intention of exploiting partisan differences as a way to cement viewer loyalty in a world of 124 stations, and thousands of websites and blogs, and it will treat national politics as a series of professional wrestling matches so it can compete with reality TV shows, campy teenage melodramas, and bad sitcoms. Voters have been taught to see each other as actual enemies of democracy and they would rather sacrifice their own right to vote, if the 'other side' might get a short term advantage in the next few elections.

    centrists are not going to be gaining as a percentage of the Senate any time soon.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  6. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I won't be receiving a check.
     
  7. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You should be sorry you asked. The elections are the reason why they want to destroy the filibuster. Democrats want:
    • No Voter ID
    • No Signature Verification
    • Ballot Harvesting
    • No Audit Ability to tie voters to votes
    • Unrequested Mail In Ballots
    • Federalizing of Congressional and Presidential Elections

    It's all in the bill they would never pass without destroying the filibuster and their reason for pushing the change. You're now educated. You should thank me.
     
  8. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    Here is the bill.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1/text

    please highlight the section each of these things you listed are under.

    Thanks
     
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  9. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    I agree it originally was a housekeeping measure and only change was to clean up the motion when other motions were available. I'm not sure gerrymandering has lead to all of this partisan politics but I agree it may play a role. I think identity politics has ruined the center, now your a racist if your a republican as an example. What's the root cause of identity politics, power pure and simply. Power and control has ruined many a country, hopefully the country is still mainly center and will wake up. Get these congress critters out of office when they become extreme period. That's really where the control lies.
     
  10. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    That should be the end of that, since he can't do that...

    I especially laugh at "Unrequested mail in ballots".... Here's the language of the bill

    Section 1621

    upload_2021-3-9_13-43-16.png

    So if you do vote absentee once, and indicate that is your preferred method of voting, you will get a ballot in the next election in the mail.

    So TECHNICALLY, that is a REQUESTED mail in ballot, just well in advance and only needed to be done once.

    WTF is wrong with saving your voting preference with the state?

    Nothing..... except apparently, that's a "competitive disadvantage" for one of the parties....
     
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  11. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong with requesting a ballot every year to insure you didn't move or die. I mean surely one would be completely bedridden if you can't get out of the house to go shop, buy beer or vote. One of the biggest problems with mail in voting systems that have been implemented is voters moving both in state and out of state. It waste money and it results in double ballots if the voter calls in and request another ballot. I'm really trying hard to understand why it's a necessity to not request your ballot annually if you can't get out of your house, hell you're looking for something to do getting online or a phone call seems pretty minimum to save the problems listed above.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
  12. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually some fair points.... maybe I can take you off of ignore (for a trial period).

    Handling people who move or die on state voting rolls is another topic (and a good one). Most states have pretty good methodology there, and if they don't, it's time to pick up the pace.

    But you have to admit that I shut that "Unrequested mail in ballots" thing down. That you disagree with this concept doesn't mean the bill allows/requires unrequested mail in ballots...
     
  13. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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  14. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    LOL on the ignore....I will say every state is different and even you have to admit mail in ballots open up potential for fraud. My goal is simple, let everyone vote, verify their residency and their citizen status, last four of a SS maybe could fix it but there's a lot of fraudulent individuals using socials out there so take it a step further in verification. Mail in voting needs to be complete and counted before every election, no totals can be known. Mail in voting needs a 2 party verification system. There can't be any post election vote counting period. Our entire system is based on trust and no one could fully trust the last election due to the multitude of changes made during the process and the late vote counting mess that just so happened in swing states. All this did was fire up both parties fringe wackos, it's unhealthy and will result in more and more problems if not fixed now vs right before an election. Some things in HR1 I like, no more congress critter sexual harassment bailout money. I like Superpacs having to name their funders this will stop some of the sleaze like the Coker's and Soros. I do not like tax payer dollars matching campaign donations, that's f'ing stupid. To say the federal government is going to manage the voter registration is yet another major problem waiting to explode. You dems were up in arms about the federal postal service yet you want to trust them to handle the voter register, uh no thank you. States need to be responsible with federal guidelines.
     
  15. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    For Voter Identification: It does not directly stop States from having Voter ID laws. It does however demand a bypass to it by requiring States to accept a sworn written statement saying that they are who they claim to be in lieu of an ID. The only exception to this is for those registering to vote for the first time. At all other times they MUST accept sworn written statements.

    Read the rest starting at:

    This essentially means that you don't need an ID to vote. Despite State Laws to the contrary. So what he said is, in effect, true. Even if the bill doesn't outright ban such laws.

    For Signature Verification:

    Just going to quote:

    That paragraph 2 is ironic and not needed since the first paragraph prohibits signature verification. Here's paragraph 2: (I started just after what I quoted above so you know there's no shenanigans going on)

    Just how are they supposed to do this if the first paragraphs forbids signature verification?

    Anyways, that's all I have time for.
     
  16. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Use the same rules as the Texas Senate. Make 'em earn it each and every time.
     
  17. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Aww! How come? Did you make too much money to qualify?
     
  18. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks. I was going to do the same thing. That happens a lot on this forum ... partisan rhetoric and outright lies, with of course no attempt at proof.
     
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  19. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes? I have no issue with the limits imposed. I don't need it and certainly don't want to add to the National Debt needlessly.

    What they have done is stupid. Most of these people getting the checks have debts and that is what they are going to pay off in mass. There will be some limited purchasing by the $80K-$160K range people, but the rest just goes to the banks and finance companies. The smart move would have been to pour money into Small Businesses if you want to see true recovery and prosperity, but that's clearly not the goal.
     
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  20. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree it ain't pretty, but urgency is much more important than accuracy right now.

    The best way to boost the economy is to put money in people's hands. It keeps them spending on needs like food, shelter, and clothing, and allows them to hang on in safety until things break loose from this pandemic and jobs become available.

    We can always pay ourselves (our government) back through future income taxes when we once again have full employment, but we can't bring back the dead, hence the urgency.
     
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  21. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And btw, I'm sincerely glad for you, and others, who don't need the help.
     
  22. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    As an aside, it works both ways. Back in the 60s for instance it was the Democrat majority that filibustered LBJ's civil rights act.

    I thought the filibuster was a required talking action with a couple of small loopholes. Did I miss something over the past years?
     
  23. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It changed somewhere.... I don't know when or by whom, but it's backwards by forcing 60 votes to continue....It should be 40 voting to not continue...
     

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