US military cites rising risk of Chinese move against Taiwan

It might not be possible. Certainly not simple.

 

He did that to make American products more competitive over seas against China. Consumers pay the taxes as the end user.

 

seem like the saving went to CEOs pocket. they had some the highest bonus/payout. trump is that, he only care about himself, did u notice he only make china enemy after covid, which in his mind cost his election. he even said he gonna release ban on chinese zte cause it cause chinese jobs back in 2018.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ts-america-first-on-hold-to-save-chinese-jobs

https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...ons-to-trump-organization-tied-project-2018-5

oh under trump trade deficit between china-US widened, in china favor. unlike hauwei, ZTE is actually state owned, its in their website.

 

I think our role should be to assist those two nations in defending themselves. We can assist them with weapons and training. But that's it. I am not interested in killing our young people in a war with Russia or China over Ukraine or Taiwan.

 

Chances are it would never come to that, provided we are committed enough to the defense of our friends and allies, and we make that abundantly clear, because the Russians and Chinese very likely don't want to get into a hot war with us, either. They wouldn't come out of a fight with the world's top military power in very good shape.

 

No, they wouldn't. But we should not engage a war with either of the other top two nuclear powers in the world. Neither should they engage the U.S. None of these 3 powers should go to war with the other. But the bottom line for us should be that Ukraine and Taiwan will have to fight for themselves if it comes down to that. Again, I am unwilling to go to war with either China or Russia over Ukraine or Taiwan.

A better response to China, in the scenario where they invade Taiwan, would be to hurt them economically. We could withdraw our embassy, all of our citizens, send all of their diplomats and citizens (students and employees) home to China, stop trade, and cancel our debt to them. We could do all of that without getting into a shooting war.

If the Russians were to invade Ukraine, the U.S. could consult with our new BFFs, NATO, and get them to end diplomatic relations and economic cooperation with Russia. Again, without a shot being fired.

China and Russia would then be faced with the question of whether or not this was worth it, and, if I were either of them, the answer would be "no".

 

Don't you see the problem with that stance? It's about maintaining the balance of power and a credible deterrent to aggression. Signaling that you will walk away if they are aggressive enough toward an ally or partner of ours only invites them to do just that, because it makes us a paper tiger. We have to be willing to put our money where our mouth is if we're to have any influence and power. Otherwise, we're just appeasing dictators, and dictators don't respect that. History has taught us that.

As for the idea of ending diplomatic and economic cooperation, it's not that easy. Europeans would probably struggle to heat their homes without Russian gas, otherwise North Stream 2 wouldn't be happening in the current climate. We have also seen that sanctions don't have as much effect as we would like. Sanctions didn't save Crimea. Putin has more pressing concerns.

 

sometime it doesn't matter we want to or not. china/russia dont want war with US, and we dont want war with them either, but if tension is high, miscalculation, thing can escalate, thats how WWI started which is why hot line between these military is essential.

 

ok here is the thing, what happen taiwan announced independence, that will definitely start the war. should US go in? as matter of fact, some taiwaness politician say best way for them to be independent is drag US into the war and fight for them. The way they achieve that is antagonize china, crossing china red line etc until finally china start war with them, which will force US to join. WWI start over very small things between two small power in the region.

 

I don't think either Russia or China want to end up with diplomatic and economic isolation. We bought $451 billion worth of goods from China in 2019. Are they willing to lose that for Taiwan?

I am not willing to kill our children for Taiwan or Ukraine.

Period.

 

Was it wrong to send young men to die fighting the Nazis?

 

China isn't going to go to war over Taiwan anymore than they're going to invade Hong Kong. HK is a cash cow and their invading Taiwan would be more than sufficient casus belli for war with the US which would threaten us not at all but allow us the only really legitimate reason there is for us to repudiate our amazingly huge debt to them. That would leave them both badly beaten and completely bankrupt once the 'war' ends. They have no reason whatsoever to do that but we have several trillions so I leave it to you as to what is really going on here.

You should understand that generals in peacetime are paid very well mainly for making war plans; that doesn't mean that any of the nation's leaders mean to carry those plans into fruition. This is standard sabre-rattling. Our military must be getting concerned that they might not get a large enough share of Biden's Billions

 

YES !

.

 

The day after the Pearl Harbor attack, Germany declared war on the U.S.

So no.

 

Which brings up the obvious question? So if you aren't prepared to make sacrifices for others why should others make sacrifices for you?

I might also add that like it or not the US doesn't exist in a bubble and it can't survive and prosper by trying to pretend it does. If you don't believe me look at the history of both China and Japan. They both have have things to say about what happens if/when nations pursue isolationist agendas - and it never ends well for the country concerned.

 

@Durandal

Would you give up your son, if you have one, for Ukraine?

 

I won't speculate since I don't have a kid and couldn't really give you an informed opinion. But I wouldn't look at it as being "for Ukraine," as if that were it. There is so much more to consider than just the well-being of the nation of Ukraine in that situation.

Having visited Ukraine, though, I am kind of fond of it and don't like the idea of big bully Russia rolling in and carving it up as they see fit. I'd like to think that we, as the good guys, could and should stand up for the little guys out there.

 

Well, would you give your dad or your spouse or significant other? A brother or sister? Would give them up for that cause?

Yes or No?

 

@Durandal

If the answer isn't an unequivocal "Yes", you can't ask any other American to give up their loved one for that cause either.

 

That's an incorrect summery of the situation. Its not so much an individual decision but a collective one. Via the ballot box US citizens empower their government to make foreign policy decisions on their behalf and then (for better or worse) having made those decisions it initiates actions accordingly. Intervening in Ukraine to defend it from hypothetical Russian aggression is a foreign policy decision. If the decision is 'yes' then it would be up to armed forces of the US to intervene.

So if you have a son or daughter in the services then yes they could potentially be obliged to put themselves in harms way. But then they signed up for that responsibility. That being the case your opinion as a parent about whether or not its the right thing to do is irrelevant. You don't get a say.

It also follows that such a decision would ultimately be made only if the US government seriously considered it to be in the best interests of the United States all relevant factors being taken into consideration. Such a situation would BTW fall under the 'lesser of two evils' class of foreign policy decision making, something that comes up all to often in that arena.

 

Ah no, no, no. I'm an American, and I do get a say.

I am not going to just roll over and agree to arrogant, stupid politicians committing our children to die in stupid wars.

If China invades Taiwan, we can hurt them economically by cutting them off. So could the rest of the free world. And I would remind you that the European nations have a population about the same as ours and a combined GDP that is greater than ours. They also have nuclear weapons, armies, and air power. If those nations want to have a war with Russia, they may have it, but I am not interested in taking part in it for Ukraine.

And if you are unwilling to give up your son or daughter, your father or other loved one for Ukraine, then it isn't worth it, and you cannot expect any other American to give up their loved one either. Period. So ... would you?

 

OR, alternatively... America treats the seizure of Taiwan like Britain and France did with
the invasion of Poland by Hitler and Stalin.
Better to fight China now than later...

 

THE PROBLEM IS --- it won't stop at Taiwan or Ukraine.
You fight now or forever get nibbled to death.

 

No, let Taiwan go.
Just like we let Tibet go
And Hong Kong go
And South China Sea go.

And what comes next? The Pacific? The Indian Ocean? The Aleutians or Guam or Solomon Islands?
Why not a naval base in Hawaii? With China loaning Americans money to buy Chinese goods, maybe
one day the Chinese will accept San Diego base in lieu of debt, and Americans accept Xi Thought. ????

 

It doesn't matter what nationality you are. The same principal applies. Your Government makes the decision, not you. As for the rest? The economic implications of trade embargoes are significant. In the case of Russia at least Europe is still currently highly dependent on Russian gas for heating and power. In the case of China they export large amounts of key components for vital industries (like telecommunications and power for instance) so just saying 'no more' is far harder than you seem to imagine.

More importantly though, once the shooting starts its too late to threaten embargoes. Trade would be disrupted anyway as long as the war lasts. And besides that embargoes are something you threaten hostile nations with before a war starts not after.

If Russia or China actually invade Ukraine or Taiwan they will have already made the calculation that the immediate gains outweigh the potential costs, particularity if they assume the West doesn't have the economic 'stomach' for the kind of prolonged economic slowdown an embargo most likely would entail.

So the situation is a loooong way from being as simple as you seem to think!