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Fact-checking Biden's speech announcing new executive actions on gun control

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bluesguy, Apr 9, 2021.

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  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Once again the Biden administration engaging in outright lies and then out of context assertions. Does Biden even realize his staff is feeding him a load of c*** before he goes out and speaks?

    Gun manufacturers and liability


    Biden claimed that "the only industry in America -- a billion-dollar industry -- that can't be sued -- has exempt from being sued -- are gun manufacturers."
    Facts First: This is false. Gun manufacturers are not entirely exempt from being sued, nor are they only industry with some liability protections.

    Background checks and gun shows
    Biden claimed that "If you walk into a store and you buy a gun, you have a background check. But you go to a gun show, you can buy whatever you want and no background check."
    Facts First: This framing from Biden is misleading, since it leaves the false impression that gun shows are exempt from background check laws. Purchases at gun shows are not exempt from background checks, which are required on purchases from licensed gun dealers whether you are in a gun store, a gun show or anywhere else. Only purchases from private sellers, whether at a gun show or elsewhere, do not require a background check in most states.



    Red flag laws and suicides
    Biden touted so-called red flag laws, also known as Extreme Risk Protection Order laws, which allow people to ask a court to temporarily remove guns from people believed to be a danger to themselves or others. He said that states with red flag laws have "seen a reduction in the number of suicides in their states."
    Facts First: This needs context. Research on this subject is limited, some of the available research data is mixed, and suicide rates have increased around the US in the 21st century.

    In a 2020 review of the data on the effects of various gun policies, researchers at the RAND Corporation took note of the positive findings out of Indiana but said the overall evidence on the effect of red flag laws on both total suicides and firearm suicides is "inconclusive." The RAND report called for additional study on the subject.
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/09/poli...xecutive-actions-speech-fact-check/index.html
     
    Bluesguy, Apr 9, 2021
    #1
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  2. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    Trump only averaged 759 lies a month during his four year term. How is Joe doing?
     
    Capt Nice, Apr 9, 2021
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  3. dharbert

    dharbert Well-Known Member

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    So, it's okay if your guy lies just as long as he doesn't lie as much as the other guy?
     
    dharbert, Apr 9, 2021
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  4. dharbert

    dharbert Well-Known Member

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    Every gun I have ever purchased from a gun show was subject to a background check...
     
    dharbert, Apr 9, 2021
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  5. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    Is even a single one of your more than 120,000 post a complaint about Trump lying?
     
    Darth Gravus, Apr 9, 2021
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  6. Vote4Future

    Vote4Future Well-Known Member

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    Since Joe sleeps 22 hours per day, we are only talking about 160 hours awake since he took office; as opposed to over 1,200 hours for just the average human being.
     
    Vote4Future, Apr 9, 2021
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  7. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Anything less would be an improvement.
     
    Capt Nice, Apr 9, 2021
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  8. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most of these “lies” just need additional context.

    You can buy a gun from a gun show without a background check as long as it is from a private individual (I’ve done it)

    Gun manufacturers are exempt from some forms of liability they are just not the only one

    Some studies show what Biden has said about red flag laws, it just is inconclusive.

    Only one of these could be said is a lie and only because he asserted no other company has the same protections.

    I think the level of lies was what is different — saying one company is the only one with liability protections still makes the point that they shouldn’t have those protections vs saying a virus isn’t dangerous but it kills millions.
     
    cd8ed, Apr 9, 2021
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  9. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Biden couldn't care less.
     
    RodB, Apr 10, 2021
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  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Naturally, Sleepy Joe forgot to mention that the manufacturers of those toxic injections he and they are pushing cannot be sued for their defective products because he and his 'esteemed colleagues' gave them immunity from liability way back in 1986.
     
    Eleuthera, Apr 10, 2021
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  11. the breeze

    the breeze Active Member

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    Lol!
     
    the breeze, Apr 10, 2021
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  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Good point.
     
    Bluesguy, Apr 10, 2021
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  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Hey only message #2 and TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP!!!!!
     
    Bluesguy, Apr 10, 2021
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  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The "out of context" was just a more polite way of saying he was lying one of those "lie by omission" thingies.
     
    Bluesguy, Apr 10, 2021
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  15. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    Translation: Gun manufacturers ARE liable if they sell a DEFECTIVE product....we Democrats want to make them liable for selling products that DO work too.
     
    joesnagg, Apr 10, 2021
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  16. peacelate

    peacelate Banned

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    So the right wing trusts CNN now?
     
    peacelate, Apr 10, 2021
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  17. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    You betcha. It's sort-a like those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. If someone takes a shot at Biden, get ready for a return barrage. Nobody will ever do anything worse than trump did.
     
    Capt Nice, Apr 10, 2021
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  18. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Inability to address subject noted.
     
    Bluesguy, Apr 10, 2021
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  19. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    The subject was post # 13.
     
    Capt Nice, Apr 10, 2021
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  20. mudman

    mudman Well-Known Member

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    No, not at all.

    Gonna take a lot more than this to gain the public's trust back.
     
    mudman, Apr 10, 2021
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  21. Louisiana75

    Louisiana75 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The excuses and the explanation of acceptable level of lying from the left in this thread is amusing and expected.

    To the OP, the left doesn't care.
     
    Louisiana75, Apr 10, 2021
    #21
  22. mudman

    mudman Well-Known Member

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    LOL.....

    Whether it's an improvement or not was not the question.

    The question was whether it's ok or not....and you said it was. That is spectacular logic.
     
    mudman, Apr 10, 2021
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  23. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Yeah but see therein lies the problem. This is the same thing that news outlets do for ratings and clickbait. It's the whole argument of how the news is "factual" but not "honest". Context is VERY important when explaining something especially when it comes to important topics that many may not be familiar with like firearms.

    If I said "In America citizens can legally kill people" that is a factual statement, but without additional context and explanation that will leave most people saying wait what the hell is that true that's insane! Now if I add the additional context of "In American citizens can legally kill people in self defense if they unlawfully break into your home and attempt to harm you" then that makes sense and most people are like oh ok.

    The way Biden phrased that gun show "loophole" made it seem way more prevalent than it actually is without adding that additional context. Yes you can buy a gun from a private individual who happens to be at a gun show without a background check. You can buy a gun from a private individual not at a gun show without a background check in many states as well. But MOST people at gun shows purchase their guns from the abundance of FFL dealers who set up shop at these events which DO require background checks. But without that explanation you can make a factual statement and make it SEEM like something to drive a particular narrative. That gun show loophole narrative has been a hot topic of controversy for years and many people genuinely believe it's a huge problem due to their ignorance on the firearm community. When someone such as the President is making statements like that they need to be more responsible with their wording and explanation seeing how their words are going to reach millions of potentially uninformed people.

    I've seen dozens of politicians over the years get up on stage and make factual statements about firearms while either purposefully or accidentally leaving out important additional details due to ignorance or willful deceit to drive a narrative.
     
    Nightmare515, Apr 10, 2021
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  24. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Very cogent assessment. However, most of the politicians have no desire nor intention of being factually honest when they pursue their agenda. They only want to get the guns, any way they can think of. Facts, truth, objectivity, statistics, and science have no part to play.
     
    RodB, Apr 10, 2021
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  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Exactly which is why they absolutely refuse to acknowledge the huge elephant in the room regarding firearms. They claim we have a gun violence "epidemic" in America, sure I'll even give them that. A LOT of people are shot to death in America on an annual basis and that is an easy argument to make when you simply pull up raw homicide data from Google. However once again, without additional context, it makes it seem way worse than it is. When you include the extremely important additional context of WHO is doing the majority of the shooting, WHO the victims are, WHERE this abundantly takes place, and WHICH firearm is used then the narrative changes. The FACTS don't change, but the narrative does which is much more important. When that additional context is included and explained then the middle American suburban mom becomes less likely to freak out believing that her children might get gunned down by scary looking black rifles at the bus stop. In fact your children in middle suburbia are statistically more likely to be harmed by the bus crashing on their way to school than getting shot by a scary black rifle by a huge order of magnitude.

    Now if you live in the south side of Chicago then the story changes.

    These politicians know that, some are actually ignorant but most aren't and they know exactly what they are doing. They know exactly what the problem is, WHO the problem is, and WHERE the problem is. But they are purposefully misleading the general ignorant masses in order to push an agenda. They use clever wording that they know most folks don't fully understand to elicit an emotional response. That's why the claim was made that you can conceal an AR pistol. When general people think pistol they think small handgun like a glock or a revolver, most people outside of gun enthusiasts aren't thinking nearly full sized rifle with a brace instead of a buttstock when they hear the word pistol. So they purposefully said that in order to lead the general public into believing that folks are walking around with concealed AR (scary black gun) compact sized guns in their waistbands.

    Was he "lying"? Technically no. Sure you "CAN" conceal an AR pistol, hell I "can" conceal my full sized mossberg 500 shotgun but it's not practical and nobody obviously does that. But by purposefully saying AR (scary) pistol (small) and concealed they created a narrative by using factually correct terminology that they know the general public would misinterpret without additional explanation. Even my own father called me the other day and asked me "AR-15 makes pistols now?" I sent him a picture of one and he was like "Thats not a pistol....". Then I explained to him how that works and it confused him even more because he's the "general public". Show an AR pistol to the majority of people in society and they are going to call it a rifle or an assault rifle, only gun folks are going to know that it's a pistol.

    These politicians know exactly what they are doing. This is a classic example of using the ignorance of the general public against themselves in order to make them believe a particular narrative while being able to honestly say that you aren't "lying" to them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
    Nightmare515, Apr 10, 2021
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