Russian Tanks Cross Border Into Ukraine

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Jeannette, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hey Mark, a nice tale you wove of Ukrainian bravery that would do Poroshenko proud, after all what army would want to say they were caught in a cauldron a third time by a rag tag militia, but how could they battle the Wagner group if it didn't exist until a year later?




    [​IMG]
    Greed's our name, and lying's our game.
    for that's how we live our lives.
    With cheating and bribes
    and hypocrite cries
    to gain power and wealth and fame.


    Who are we?
     
  2. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not "the Germans" as a whole, but maybe a few Germans, and they're quite wrong.

    Why Is Germany Undermining NATO?
    by Seth Mandel

    ...

    Having the Germans accuse NATO of “propaganda” because the latter is alarmed by Russia’s repeated invasions of Ukraine is among the surest signs yet that Western Europe is far more afraid of the Russian bear than the Ukrainians are. And of course the Germans are upset with the U.S. as well. That comment about “Americans trying to thwart” Europe’s peace efforts sound less like Berlin’s finest than Sputnik media script writers.

    ...

    Speaking of Sputnik, the Kremlin propagandists are quite enjoying the Germans trying to scold NATO into not making trouble with Moscow:

    Describing the conflict as a “surprise”, the publication points to the EU’s “growing resentment of Washington’s anti-Russian strategy”, adding that the “escalation against Russia is being fueled by ‘hawks’ in the US,” including former US national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski.” …

    General Breedlove’s statements prompted harsh criticism from Berlin, which blames NATO for hampering a peaceful resolution to the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.

    Yuk it up, fellas.

    ...

    The Germans think NATO is being too belligerent with regard to Ukraine, because they’re merely assuming that Ukraine is the end of it. That is both naïve and dangerous. And it signals to Moscow that Berlin doesn’t have the stomach for a fight. Considering Germany’s history, it would be a sad irony if the Germans were the ones to finally sink NATO’s credibility. Either way, if NATO’s credibility remains intact it’ll be no thanks to Chancellor Merkel.​
     
  3. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, lying certainly does seem to be your game.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

    The Wagner Group (Russian: Группа Вагнера, tr. Grupa Vagnera), also known as PMC Wagner, ChVK Wagner, or CHVK Vagner (Russian: ЧВК Вагнера, tr. ChVK Vagnera, Russian: Частная Военная Компания Вагнера), is a Russian paramilitary organization. Some have described it as a private military company (or a private military contracting agency), whose contractors have reportedly taken part in various conflicts, including operations in the Syrian Civil War on the side of the Syrian government as well as, from 2014 until 2015, in the War in Donbass in Ukraine aiding the separatist forces of the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics.
     
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Fontanka Investigates Russian Mercenaries Dying For Putin In Syria And Ukraine
    March 29, 2016

    Fontanka, an independent Saint Petersburg newspaper, has published an investigation into the activities and deaths of Russian “private military contractors” (PMCs) in Syria and Ukraine.

    The paper studied a group known as ChVK (PMC) Wagner, formed out of the remnants of the “Slavonic Corps,” a mercenary unit that fought ignominiously in Syria in 2013.

    While Fontanka, which first reported on the Slavonic Corps debacle that year, recently reported that members of that unit had returned to Syria, it was not until today that anyone claimed to have documentary evidence of the Wagner group’s operations.

    Fontanka profiles several fighters with the unit and charts their activities from training centers in Russia to Ukraine’s Lugansk Region and the Syrian town of Palmyra.

    ... https://www.interpretermag.com/font...enaries-dying-for-putin-in-syria-and-ukraine/
     
  5. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What's MSM? I am talking about the figures - demographics, economies etc..
     
  6. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This could be the future of war: what some call 'grey warfare'
    It's practiced by the Chinese - they blur the distinction between fishermen, coastguard and their navy.
    You can't be sure you are being invade by fishermen, bankers with cheap loans, migrants or cartographers
    adding dashed lines to maps.
    Same with Russia. Here we have 'volunteers' with Buk missiles mounted to military trucks. Try and borrow
    your own Buk missile and see how far you get.

    America is extending its own coastguard now to encompass the Western Pacific.It needs to go further with
    'volunteer' pilots and borrowed F15's and F16's. America needs to reign in its media with security censorship.
    America needs to claim islands within Chinese 200k marinetime borders and to claim former Ukraine territory
    within Russia itself with updated dashed maps. And America needs to arm Ukraine and Taiwan with nuclear
    weapons.
     
  7. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    These things are needed sometimes. The Greek islands in the Aegean are under threat by Turkey, yet according to the Lausanne Treaty they are not allowed to be armed. So the men that work and live there are also part time soldiers.
    That's funny but it's true. The bankers took over Greece by giving mortgages with cheap rates to everyone at a time when their real estate was the highest in the world. As for migrants, they are being sent en masse by Turkey to the wealthy islands of Chios and Lesbos and the EU wants them to build hospitality centers there as well. The people are rebelling though since many are terrorists in disguise.

    About the Buks. I read at the time in Vineyard of the Saker, that Kiev sent 4 Buks to the Donbas and he couldn't understand why.

    Later when the airliner was shot down, the investigative reporter Robert Parry of Consortiumnews asked his agent in Washington what he knew. The agent said the only photo of men manning Buks had on Ukrainian uniforms, and they couldn't understand why Obama was blaming the Russians.

    Three months later he asked him if there was anything new. The agent said no, and that everything still points to a rogue group in Ukraine. (Kolomoisky?). Parry then said, why aren't you telling the American people the truth and that it's not the Russians? The agents reply was: "Russia has everything going for it in Ukraine, and all we have is our propaganda."


    It has!

    They don't need to as far as Ukraine is concerned. The US already owns it - that is except for Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk. It was Nuland who chose Ukraine's president.
     
  8. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Nobody gives a $hit about Ukraine, Ukraine doesn't give a $hit about DPR....you know this for a fact....or you pulling it out of your a$$?

    Sounds like "holodniy kavalkeeh" on your part....do where are you from?....I'll hazard a guess...St Pete troll farm?
     
  9. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the same source. (You should read further down. Less spin and brainwashing, and a more honest assessment)

    In early 2016, Wagner had 1,000 employees, which later rose to 5,000 by August 2017, and 6,000 by December 2017. The organization was said to be registered in Argentina and also has offices in Saint Petersburg and Hong Kong.
    If the Wagner group had 1,000 employees in 2016, it means they were just starting up, so how could they be in Ukraine in 2014 - so let's stop the nonsense. I read quite a bit about the war in Ukraine at the time, and never came across any mention of a Wagner group. The only fighters mentioned other than the indigenous Russians, were volunteers from Serbia, Spain, and Russia.

    The name Wagner only popped up in 2017 in Eastern Syria, when they were hired by the locals to fight ISIS that we were supporting. That's why they were killed.
     
  10. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Even the Russians disagree with you. From: https://www.gazeta.ru/politics/2016/03/22_a_8137565.shtml

    Боевики ИГ заявили, что в боях под сирийской Пальмирой погибли пять российских солдат. В доказательство исламисты выложили фото и видео тел погибших, а также кадры из их телефонов. Российские власти утверждают, что убитые не имеют отношения к силовым структурам. Источники «Газеты.Ru» связывают погибших бойцов с частной военной компанией (ЧВК) Вагнера — полулегендарным формированием, наемники которого кроме Сирии отличились в Донбассе и Крыму.​

    Google translation:

    IS militants said that five Russian soldiers were killed in the battles near Syrian Palmyra. As proof, the Islamists posted photos and videos of the bodies of the victims, as well as footage from their phones. The Russian authorities claim that those killed have nothing to do with the security forces. Sources of Gazeta.Ru associate the dead fighters with Wagner's private military company (PMC), a semi-legendary formation whose mercenaries, in addition to Syria, distinguished themselves in Donbass and Crimea.​
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  11. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He's right, so stop <COMMENTS EDITED>thinking that Ukraine or Ukrainians are of any importance to Washington. The coup was so our navy could take over Sevastopol and make it a home base for the 6th fleet. Putin knew this, and that's why he freed Crimea from Kiev, but not Donetsk and Lugansk.

    The SS Donald Cook came thinking that Crimea was now theirs, and they had the plans all made out on how they were going to convert Sevastopol into an American base. But to their surprise, Crimea was not theirs to be had.

    Now how about some reality. When Yanukovich was negotiating to enter the EU, he found out that the beneficial trade agreements Ukraine had made with Russia, would have to be cancelled. Moscow could not allow EU goods to enter Russia under those fair agreements. It turned out that if Ukraine became a partner of the EU, instead of losing something like 30 billion, they would end up losing something like 150 to 300 billion.

    Yanukovich asked the EU to help them out, and the EU said no, and told him to go to the IMF. The terms of the IMF were very harsh. The social services in Ukraine would have to be cut 70%, and fuel prices would have to double and he felt he just couldn't do that to the Ukrainian people. This is why he stopped negotiating, and left it off for a few years.

    Yanukovich still needed money desperately though to cover Ukraine's debts, and no country would loan it to him - not even China, so as a last resort he went to Putin. Putin did loan him the money to the chagrin of the Russian people who were sick and tired of carrying Ukraine.

    That's when the coup started, and the diplomatic planes started coming with dollars to hand to the protesters. As for the IMF loans Ukraine received, every penny was spent either to buy arms and enrich our military industrial complex or was pocketed by the oligarchs while Washington turned a blind eye. Today Ukraine is on the same level as Somalia.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2021
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  12. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh lordy. If we wanted Sevastopol, why would we have sat back and let Putin take it? Because Russia's modernized conscript army is just that amazeballs?
     
  13. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Banned

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    Well that doesn't say much for the US army now does it? After all, Russian forces fought the Nazis in Stalingrad (now Volgograd) and beat the Nazis' asses all the way back to Berlin and got to Berlin before our super duper badass US military could get from the beaches of France to Berlin. Then, of course, they also stopped off at all the concentration camps on the way and freed those held.

    I can only guess our soldiers got bogged down at a bunch of French whore houses. I mean because surely a bunch of vodka-drinking, potato eating alcoholic inbreds with prehistoric arms couldn't possibly be such badasses as the US military.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  14. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Of course, they did that with a lot of help from us in the form of lend-lease and by sacrificing a lot of soldiers in the process. Not to take away from the bravery or overall competence of the Soviet army in WWII, of course. They did a great job of beating back the Nazis.

    But that's also 70+ years back now and hardly relevant to today's situation.
     
  15. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How can they say the Wagner group distinguished themselves in Donbass and Crimea, when their name was never mentioned except in Syria? Were they under Igor Girkin alias Strelkov, because he certainly was distinguished. Sort of like a Lawrence of Arabia type.

    He had a problem with Putin though since he wanted to free Mariapol and Odessa from the Junta, and Putin had other ideas.





    [​IMG]
     
  16. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It shocked the Americans that the Russians were able to take over Crimea without one life being lost. The Ukrainian army was stationed there, and the Cossacks hindered the troops from getting orders from Kiev by kidnapping the Commanding officer.
     
  17. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Sure he is.....but you know what Jenny....when Ukraine ascends to NATO....Odessa will make a lovely port for US/UK/EU navies.
    I also understand a large CIA field office will be built northwest of the city.....and Priluki air base ...is it?.....will accommodate B52,B1B,B2 ,F35s....which will be more than some mild irritant for Sevastopol.

    The Russkis will need counseling for depression when they'll see all that modern hardware parked nearby. So instead of hacker attacks, Wagners, disinformation....the vatniks should build a sanitorium in Krym for the numbers of patients they'll receive....I dont know what water supply ....Krym is going dry ....maybe run a pipe from Lake Baikal?
     
  18. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You do realize that if Ukraine joins Nato it will be a Casus Belli (cause for war) for Russia since it will threaten their security. This is why Ukraine is not in Nato, nor will it ever be in Nato. Instead of Russia, you should be paying attention to the Ukrainian mafias that have been stealing Ukraine's wealth, and using Ukraine's sons for cannon fodder.
     
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  19. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just something from the Greekdefensenet.

    Russia is responding to the military pressure on its borders and transferring it to the periphery of the US, in response to the harboring of suicidal attacks by Ukraine on the independent republics of Donbass (Donetsk and Lugansk) in the former eastern Ukrainian territory, and possibly also on the Russian territory of Crimea itself.

    Russia's submarines are armed with 3M22 Zircon super-supersonic missile systems and will be deployed in Cuba and Venezuela. From this distance they will be able to hit American soil in a few minutes (in 2 minutes to be exact from a distance of 200 miles off the coast of Venezuela).

    Zircon is flown at speeds between 6,115 km/h and 7,400 km/h, i.e. five to six times the speed of sound! That means they'll be able to travel 250 km. in less than 2 minutes or 150 km. in 1.1 minutes (67 seconds) flying faster than the bullet of a gun!

    According to sources from Moscow "They feel that they can transfer the war to the Russian border by installing weapons in Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic. Now they'll realize that this could backfire on them.'
     
  20. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Sure it will....I vaguely remember the asistic Russkis making those threats against the Baltics.....fast forward...Baltics are in NATO and EU.

    Ukraine in NATO should be least of Muscovia concern.....the US missiles in Latvia,Lithuania,Estonia are less than 5 min flight time to St Pete.....Ukraine is hundreds of miles away.....hardly a worry.
     
  21. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I fear Erdogan just pushed the ignition on this conflict
    https://warnews247.gr/diakiryxi-pol...apofasizei-o-poutin-gia-enarxi-epicheiriseon/

    We've got a right mess developing everywhere, I would not want to be part of Nato right now.

    Major conflicts,
    Nato-Ukraine vs Russia (maybe Greece & Egypt)
    China vs Taiwan - Quad countries
    UAE - Saudi - Israel vs Iran

    While South America and Africa will provide plenty of refugees to destabilise UK, Europe and America.

    Did I leave anyone out from this globalist agenda?
     
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  22. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re reigning in its media.

    It's been obvious since the late sixties that American media is often willing to
    take America's opponent's side. For instance the media is soft on China and Russia
    in conflict, and spends most of its energy critically examining American practices.
    Thus we get Guantanamo Bay photos for instance, but photos of Russian
    practices like the leveling of Grozny, or shorn Uighurs in chains, shunted off to
    concentration camps - are not widely published and thus don't culturally resonate.

    ps Russia had a good chance to exonerate itself from the Buk incident, but did
    not take it for obvious reasons.

    RussiaSuspects.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  23. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Banned

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    I think they were waiting on the satellite data that John Kerry claimed to have that supposedly proved Russia was responsible for the downing of MH17. As it turns out, Kerry was lying but the MSM kept spreading the lies.

    The Malaysian government isn't buying that Russia was responsible either.

    The Ukrainian military was the only ones with BUKs in the area the day it was shot down.

    Give the fake crap a rest already.

    Kolomisky (sp?) the Ukrainian oligarch is on video admitting that they thought MH17 was Putin's plane. (similar color scheme)

    Maybe just maybe the Ukrainians are a bunch of corrupt idiots.
     
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  24. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What credibility? You mean this credibility?

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Putin came to Australia shortly after this incident. He actually got his navy to sail down as well.
    Remarkable to have such power, and no-one to challenge you on it. Just to show how tough
    you are.
    Anyhow, Putin promised Prime Minister Abbot he would fully co-operate with the investigation
    but of course, he didn't. And for good reason.
    I find the people who claim that Russia is innocent ('only volunteers in Ukraine') invariably make
    the claim that the conga line of dead opponents to Putin, inside and outside of Russia, has nothing
    to do with Putin. Stretches the credibility a bit.
    Just hand over the Russian suspects and let them have their day in court.
     

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