US military cites rising risk of Chinese move against Taiwan

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Durandal, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure, it was thought that eventually South Vietnam would be like South Korea (as it was
    back then) due to the huge investment and infrastructure projects in that country. Also
    there was a strong entrepreneurial culture in the South, particularly with the Chinese.

    Scandinavian nations are Capitalist, with some Socialist programs like health care.
    Same as Australia actually. Vietnam is a Communist nation.
     
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  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why? I think we should have supported the Chinese in their fight against Mao, and
    we should have stood with the Russians in the rise against the Bolsheviks.
    Had we done so we would have saved the lives of 150,000,000 people.

    And if we don't fight Communism, then neither should we have fought against the
    Fascists, Imperial Japan or the Islamists. They are all in the same basket.
     
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  3. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    we did support the KMT during china civil war by providing aids/equipments/training etc etc. but realize it was lose endeavor, the KMT back then was so corrupt, pretty much all chinese peasant support Mao, one of major reason CCP won the war. remind you Taiwan didn't have true democracy till 1996, and it has one of the longest marshal law in place from 49 to 87. back then KMT was much worse than CCP, hence why chinese was supporting Mao despite the fact KMT have better equipment/aids/training from US. CCP back then didnt even have air force compare to KMT.
     
  4. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Ever notice that whenever the side the U.S. supports in a war starts losing that inevitably the U.S. condemns them as "corrupt"?

    the KMT in China. South Vietnam in the Vietnam War. To name just a couple.
     
  5. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    dont know about SV, but KMT was indeed corrupt, there are history book on those. if KMT didn't lose the support of the peasant, they likely will win the war.
     
  6. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Has their EVER been a government in a war that didn't have at least some corruption? Even the Revolutionary War U.S. government. There are just too many opportunities for ill gotten gains during a military conflict.
     
  7. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's funny you know - some nations support the Communists because their own govts are 'corrupt'
    But when the Communists take power they TAKE EVERYTHING.
    The Sth Viet govt was 'corrupt' (ie petty stealing) but Hanoi took their land, their gold... everything.
     
  8. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    What infrastructure projects in South Vietnam are you talking about? Were they anything like the shipyards and heavy industries in South Korea?

    To my knowledge, Vietnam is socialist/ Capitalist, not communist, (though it is still very authoritarian but that is the Chinese influence). About the only really communist (Stalinist) nation left in the world is North Korea. China CALLS itself communist but in fact they are more Capitalist than we are, (though very authoritarian)
     
  9. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wonder if Xi's China will revert to Communist form.
    Airbases, roads, bridges... that kind of thing. Many refugees from Vietnam post 1975 settled in Australia.
    They are a marvel of entrepreneurial spirit. They are Vietnam's loss. Same as what happened in Russia
    after the 'revolution' which replace one Czar with an exponentially worse one.
    Guess it's all down to definitions - but Vietnam is technically 'Communist.'
    BTW it was said by many 'peace activists' that American withdrawal from Sth Viet would not lead to the
    invasion of Sth Vietnam. That nation would be 'free to chose its own destiny.'
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  10. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    If Xi's China is just waiting anxiously for its chance to become Communist again then one has to wonder why they decided to become Capitalist now.

    As I understand it South Vietnam did choose its own destiny, and that choice was to stop fighting the North and become part of the unitary nation that had existed before. The USA could have prevented that, and we would probably still be fighting there if we had, or we could have chosen to respect a sovereign nation's decision.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  11. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With Sth Viet there was no 'sovereign decision' to become Communist. By about the mid '60's
    most Sth Vietnamese understood the nature of Hanoi - it was no different to Red China, the
    USSR, Cuba and Eastern Europe. Sth Viet could see the burgeoning economies and tentative
    democracies of Asia were a better model.
    And if Sth Viet could 'unite' with Nth Viet then why shouldn't Sth Korea 'unite' with the north? (and under the north's system of course?)

    IMO China becoming 'Capitalist' and now reverting to older norms was a TOP DOWN process.
    It was Deng back then, and Xi now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Korea and Vietnam are two VERY different countries
    North Vietnam was a good deal different from most of the other "Communist" nations and if we had recognized this and decided to help Ho Chi Minh when he asked us to support him instead of the French colonialists after WWII a great deal of subsequent tragedy might have been averted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  13. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Vietnam and Korea.
    They are the same in that they were divided by USSR and USA. Japan was lucky to surrender
    when it did, and escape the same fate. The A-bomb was a nice excuse for the Emperor in that
    regard.
    Vietnamese Communist Party gets a good rap in the West, at least compared to Cambodia's
    (conveniently renamed by the French Philosophers to Khmer Rouge - which means Cambodian
    Communist Party) This Communist party might be seen like the Vietnamese one, had it not
    turned on its backers, forcing Hanoi to send in mostly Sth Viet army and 'expose' their behavior.
    'Uncle Ho' wasn't much different than 'Uncle Mao' and 'Uncle Stalin.' He was the initiator of
    many deaths - beginning with the non-Communist nationalists.
     
  14. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Jeebus, propaganda from the '60s, and it hasn't changed even a LITTLE. Are you like that other guy here who still uses terms from the 1964 John Birch Society Position Papers?

    Btw, be careful when trying to look like you really understand historical Communist leaders "Uncle Ho" was never very well known, and "Uncle Mao" never went by that name at all. "Uncle Stalin" just makes you look silly. The appellation for him is "Uncle Joe" and it refers to how much he looked like everyone's stereotypical kindly uncle, particularly when he smoked his pipe
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  15. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You "understand it" incorrectly. South Vietnam did not "choose" anything. It was overrun and conquered in 1975 by a massive North Vietnamese armored invasion that featured more tanks than the Nazis used against France.
     
  16. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We could tell the Chinese that we'll stay out of the way if they pay us a trillion dollars. Not that we should get in the way anyway, but we might be able to fool them into forking out the money.
     
  17. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    My understanding was that they resisted almost not at all. but the "Murican" narrative may have since become that they fought heroically against the Godless Commies so who am I to argue with Wiki.
    What kind of tanks did they use? The Russians at that time had the best, the Abrams was still some years off
     
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    That's really not a good comparison. Han are 94% of China. There was never any danger of the Han losing their majority, one child policy or no. And as you can see, China has no problem whatsoever taking steps to maintain Han supremacy (see the Uighurs, while you still can).
     
  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Eh...well you are not wrong. The US does bear a lot of responsibility in turning China from craphole to superpower. We are going to pay for that...hard over the coming decades, but the US isn't the only one. Other western powers got their hands dirty too, including yours.
     
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  20. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm must sadly report that the US is paper tiger. If we are a superpower, it's a hollow one. We just have not had that big foreign policy debacle that makes it obvious to the world, and to us. Our Suez moment is coming, and I hope we handle it in such a way that we don't bite off more than we can chew and destroy our own country in the process. I don't think there is much we can do for either Taiwan or Ukraine, but we definitely can't go to war over them.
     
  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    T-54/55s. Chinese made..
     
  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Why not?
     
  23. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Why not what? I don't understand what you are specifically asking.
     
  24. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    There are lots of people who declare themselves their own nation, including ones in America.
     
  25. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    To the victor goes the spoils.
     

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