Comparing Georgia’s new election law to a few Blue States

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Bullseye, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

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    I can tell you the article isn't very reliable

    For starters New York doesn't have a ban on offering water to people who are in line to vote, it is only illegal if the individual handing out the water can be identified with a specific entity such as a campaign associate, but if the person isn't wearing anything to associate themselves with a campaign, or the refreshments they are offering has a retail value of $1 or less (which is the common vending machine price), then there are no legal issues

    Georgia is the only state that outright makes it illegal to give water to people in line to vote, whether the individual is associated with a campaign or not, and this is attached to a bill with a cluster of regulations that are guaranteed to create longer lines for voters, and I think that's something worth noting, we're actually reading an article which compares Georgia's voting law to the strictest individual voting regulations from 7 different states. All of these combined regulations are being implemented for a single state, there's nothing that quite compares to that
     
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  2. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Thank you! Take my like good sir
     
  3. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    And if the Rump hadn't been priming his minions for the past year with his bullshit "if we lose the election, it's because the elections are rigged" there wouldn't be so many Republican legislators rushing to rewrite election laws to fix an imaginary problem. Anyone who can't, or refuses, to see the obviousness of this is just being a puppet for partisan hacks.
     
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  4. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    The reasons why they are changing the laws is irrelevant to me whether its because Trump got everybody riled up or because invisible aliens from Mars came down and gave these politicians an epiphany in the middle of the night.

    You should have to present some form of identification to vote. Laws requiring that being brought forward is a good thing regardless of the reasons why that came about. The fact that such a thing is even controversial is absolutely asinine.
     
  5. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. Come on. You’re better than chirp “Trump minions” and nonsense like that.
     
  6. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    It may be irrelevant to you, but it is relevant to those who don't drink from that well. There was no major rush to change election laws in 2018 or any other year as much as this one, so to dismiss it out of hand is rather telling of the smoke and mirrors trick that only works for those on the Right.
     
  7. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Then why the mad dash to change election laws in these states when after 60 some-odd lawsuits failed to show any malfeasance during the most voted for election in history?

    And I use the term "minions" because of the highly biased nature of this forum to call them what they truly are would have me banned. After the events of January 6th, everything I predicted about the GOP came true. The fact that you would like for it to "go away" or re-invent some other alternative reality is not going to cut it. This whole changing of election laws is just an extension of the conservatives' culture wars.
     
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  8. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Which was equally dumb. The fact that it wasn't required to show an ID to vote when Reagan was running was dumb, it was dumb when Bush was running, dumb when Clinton, GW, Obama, and Trump.

    I personally don't care about any other intricate election laws whether that be the mail in voting thing or early voting or whatever other ways we come up with to vote in the future. All I care about is the fact that when I, Nightmare515, cast my vote whether that be via mail, absentee, in person, over the phone, online, thrown via paper airplane, etc, there is a system in place that allows it to be verified that I am the person who cast that vote and I was legally allowed to cast it and I could only cast it once.

    Thats all I'm saying. And the easiest way we currently have to do that is to require me to show an ID that says I am me and I'm legally allowed to cast my vote.

    If Trump throwing a fit is what caused at least one more State to implement that elementary concept then I am ok with that. It shouldn't take anything "happening" for that to be the nationwide policy, that is pure common sense.
     
  9. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    For all of my life, I never had an issue voting. I gave them my name and address, they would check it on their roster, and if for some bizarre reason it wasn't there, I would be handed a provisional ballot, to later be vetted by my proper voting credentials when I originally registered to vote.

    Why fix what ain't broke? Just to appease those who vociferously believe the Earth is flat?
     
  10. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Election laws were changed quite a bit in 2020. The newest round here in 2021 is in response to all that happened in 2020.
     
  11. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Because it became obvious that the the judicial branch had the balls of field mice.
    Nice to talk to a open-minded, intellectually inquisitive poster. (sarcasm).
     
  12. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Because by using the system that you mentioned what's to stop me from knowing who you are and where you live and deciding to use your name and address and cast my vote? That's actually happened before in my case only it was unintentional. I'm a junior and my father votes sometimes but sometimes he doesn't. Many years ago I went to cast my vote and then a few hours later my father calls me up saying hey did you vote? I'm at the polling place and they're saying I was already here and voted...I forgot to mention junior when they asked me and they thought I was my father. If this were one of the years when my father decided not to vote then I just voted for him on accident. And if I were ill intended and would have known that I could have walked back in there and added "junior" to my name and voted twice. Or better yet, knowing that my father doesn't usually vote and seeing the mistake that was made I could decide to use that to my advantage next election cycle and vote twice on purpose. An ID would solve that problem.

    We don't operate like that in any other normal facet of society. I require daily prescription medication for health reasons. Every few months I have to refill my prescription online and then go to the pharmacy and present my ID to pick up my medication. Why can't I just give them my name and address and call it good? When I purchase alcohol I have to provide my ID to prove my age (well if they ask...they can usually tell). Why can't I just tell them I was born well prior to the year 2000 and they take my word for it? When I pick up my mail from the post office I have to present my ID. When I purchase a firearm (another Constitutional Right) I have to show my ID to prove who I am and they have to check to see if I am legally of age to purchase it and legally allowed to own it. The list goes on.

    The point is we don't use the system you described for anything else in society. Minority folks are disproportionately effected by health issues in America per capita. We don't consider it "oppressive" to minorities that an ID is required to pick up medication at every legal pharmacy in the country. Or if picking up for somebody else you must be on a special permission list and in most places still have to have that persons ID with you to present.

    Why is requiring an ID to vote something that is "oppressive" or "controversial" when nothing else in society that requires an ID (which is virtually everything) is considered as such?
     
  13. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    So, just to be clear, because you misidentified yourself to the poll workers it's the system's fault? I'm assuming your father lives with you in the same house? If not, then there is indeed a problem in your state.

    To be honest, I don't have any problems with being asked for my ID to vote, then again, I only have experience voting in CA and FL, and since I haven't voted in FL since the 80s, I can't really say what it's like there now. However, what I have heard is that in many parts of the south, there are indeed hurdles for some rural folks being able to produce the said documents needed for a driver's license or whatever. So since I don't have any personal experience voting or doing anything that would require a legal transaction in those states where Jim Crow was most prevalent, I would have to defer to what civil rights advocates say about the matter.

    And BTW, the Constitution states it's the domain of the states to set election rules for their own state. So if your individual state doesn't require ID, surely they must have other means to verify that the right person is voting? Right?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  14. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Yes it's the systems fault that I misidentified myself to the poll workers. Well let me clarify, it's not the systems fault that I did that, it was my fault. It's the systems fault that I COULD do that. Yes during the time of this incident my father and I lived in the same house. Both of our names were on the roster and I'm pretty sure they were right next to each other most likely, but given the situation at hand I could literally vote twice if I so desire. I want a system in place that prevents me from doing that. Requiring me to show an ID to vote would prevent that seeing how every piece of ID that I own has "Jr" at the end of my name to differentiate between myself and my father. My father and I have different political opinions and we are close so I know when he does and doesn't vote. Given my knowledge that he doesn't usually vote I can take that information and knowledge of the broken system and vote on his behalf for the candidate that he wouldn't have voted for without his permission. And then go vote again on my own behalf.

    I want a system that prevents me from doing that. I shouldn't be able to do that.

    I understand that there may be hurdles to SOME people for getting an ID of some sort but I honestly don't believe that it is anywhere near as prevalent of a problem as "politics" makes it seem. And if indeed these hurdles are real and prevalent then we need to be consistent in our mentalities, that's all I ask. If there is a genuine concern about disenfranchisement of poor minorities by requiring an ID to vote then we HAVE to also acknowledge that we are putting poor minorities at unnecessary risk by requiring ID to pick up medication at a pharmacy. Minorities are per capita in poorer health than others in America and require prescription medication at a greater volume per capita than others. An ID is required to pick those meds up. What if someone loses their ID and birth certificate and SS card? We aren't talking about exercising a right to vote here anymore we're talking about someone's ability to stay alive. Using the same methodology that we are using regarding voter ID are we not then also jeopardizing the health of minorities by requiring ID to pick up meds from the pharmacy?

    Not to use anecdotal evidence to make a point but I have to be honest here. I'm a minority, I'm black, my mother is extremely ill and requires a myriad of prescription medications on a daily basis and she is poor (I do the best I can to support her but she's disabled and has no job). I'm not making this up to make a point this is a true story. About 2 years ago she lost her entire purse and everything in it. She called me in absolute panic about that and I sent her some money as I always do and got on the phone with various organizations to see about the process of getting her documents replaced. We could do it yes but it required paperwork and time. She needed her medication, she explained it to the pharmacy and they refused to give it to her without her ID. She calls me and even I call the pharmacy AND the hospital myself and try to explain to them what happened and they were understanding but they would not budge. No ID no medication. I asked if they could give it to her on my behalf, if I could fax them my ID seeing how we have the same last name, my birth certificate with her name on it signed as my parent, photographs of her and I together, anything. They said no. SHE has to have an ID, period.

    So she went about 2 weeks without her medication until her new SS card and documents came in the mail. I paid the extra fee to get them fast tracked. And during that time I was in panic mode because while she is pretty good at keeping the extent of her ailments a secret from me I know that she is terribly ill but I don't fully know what is wrong with her. It's some sort of disease and she is in the hospital more often than not.

    Is that not also messed up? How often does a situation like what happened to my mother happen in America? I honestly don't know. But the fact that the pharmacy requires you present an ID in order to pick up medication means that those without an ID who require medication will not be able to get it such as my mother during that 2 week duration. This isn't about her casting a vote this is about her staying alive. Should we not take that into consideration when making policies requiring ID to pick up meds at the pharmacy? Why is nobody calling it racist that a pharmacy requires an ID but it's considered racist by some for the voting booth to require ID? In my personal opinion medication required to keep you alive > being able to vote. And if having to show an ID to vote is racist and disproportionately effects minorities then so does requiring an ID to get medication.

    Consistency, that's all I ask.
     
  15. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.savannahnow.com/amp/7037231002

    1) The time allowed for requesting, receiving, filling out, and returning a ballot by mail, was cut to less than half of what it was in this past election.

    2) Reduces Number of ballot drop boxes

    3) Restricts Access to ballot drop boxes

    <BEGIN SNIP>
    Drop boxes

    The new law requires all 159 Georgia counties to have at least one drop box, but prevents counties from having more than 1 box per 100,000 registered voters, or one per early voting site — whichever number is smaller.

    For Chatham County, which had a little over 208,000 registered voters in the Jan. 6 runoff, that likely means we’ll have two drop boxes, down from the 10 we had during the runoff and the general election.

    Previously,
    the boxes were required to be on government property with 24/7 camera surveillance. They never closed, and voters could drop off ballots at any time.

    But the new bill requires the boxes to be inside an early voting site, and will only be available during early voting hours.
     
  16. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    As I stated before, I do not know the details of why some states make it so difficult to get the required documentation to get a proper ID. That is something you need to find out on your own. As for taking care of your mother under such circumstances, you may want to discuss with your mother and her primary care physician if it may be time to consider getting a medical power of attorney for her so that you can have access to do and get things for her when she is not able to.

    Your state also provides social services to aid the elderly and their families. They too could help you under such situations with guidance to getting the medicine and care she needs. I'm fairly sure your mom is not the only senior who's had their ID stolen or misplaced. It's a fairly common occurrence, even more so for patients suffering from dementia and Alzheimer's. By preparing for this, you may actually find out the answers to what the reality is in regards to this issue we are discussing.

    That being said though, the situation that occurred with your father on that election day is already figured into the system. While technically yes, you voted in your father's name, statistically it wouldn't have changed the election results, nor is it a practical approach that could be applied by nefarious characters trying to rig an election. The greater threat to elections is stifling voter turnout, not illegals or undocumented folks showing up to rig an election, but that is what right-wing media preaches, whether directly or indirectly. It is ratcheting up the fear factor that is important to them, and that is the tie to Jim Crow.
     
  17. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    And this is where the difference lies between us. You don't believe that the amount of people who vote who shouldn't be legally allowed to vote is of enough significance to where we need to have voter ID to prevent them from doing so. Have SOME people voted illegally? Absolutely. Is it enough people to where it actually matters? No. That's a fair argument, I respect that.

    For me,

    I don't believe that the amount of people who are unable to obtain an ID and wish to vote is of enough significance to where requiring an ID will disenfranchise any significant amount of people. I believe that narrative to be the result of left-wing media propaganda. Will SOME people who want to vote be unable to do so because they literally are unable to get an ID somehow? Yes I'm sure there will be SOMEBODY out there in that category. Is it enough people to where it justifies not requiring an ID to vote? No.

    As far as the situation with my mother social services was involved as well. A good friend of the family works for social services in her state and he looks after her and he was actually the one trying to work this all out for her not me seeing how he works in the field and I have no idea what I'm doing in that regard. After calling the pharmacy and hospital and getting her card in the mail I called him and he took it from there. I honestly have no idea if there is some emergency channel to get medication without an ID in situations like this and I just couldn't figure it out or something. He couldn't get it done either. Is it actually impossible? I honestly don't know. I would assume it's not impossible I just couldn't figure it out.

    However, you mentioned that there are in fact these systems in place that could provide assistance to those who lost their ID's and need medication because losing an ID isn't that rare of an occurrence. If we have these systems in place then could we not use these systems to provide assistance to those who've lost their ID and wish to vote on election day?
     
  18. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    No, because it was a mess..... late ballots here and there, bad counts having to re-stated... lack of signature verification, which was lowered by democrats... meanwhile, florida count was secure and efficient when it had been a mess 4 years earlier? Desantis cleaned that mess up

    Tired of progressives who want to make the vote less secure... the voting of an election should be one of the most secure processes in the country and counts should be in by night... This nonsense of 'late' ballots delaying result by weeks, rules changing on the fly, no signature verification, no voter ID... It is incomprehensible to me how anyone is against these things..... what the progressives want is for there to be messy voting.... less secure voting. It's a disgrace...

    and also sick and tired of the ones who state 'blacks have no IDs'.. How racist is this? Do progressives see blacks as just idiots who can't get a voter ID just like poor whites can? There are more poor white people than there are poor black people! fact! so why can poor white people get IDs but not poor blacks? Do progressives think this low of black people's mental capacities?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  19. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Why is your picture of Abrams?
     
  20. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    So you don't accept that any Democrat state has more restrictive voter laws?
     
  21. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Even though it's true that Georgia's elections will only be as restrictive as other red states that have already extremist legislation to suppress the vote, this is not the only problem with this law.

    It's pretty evident that those who drafted the law took a look at how minorities vote, and made those more difficult. I don't think this strategy will even work. It will probably enrage people and drive more of them to the polls. But there is no doubt that it is intended to target minorities in general, but mostly black people. And, that being so, it is proper to refer to it as racist voter suppression legislation.
     
  22. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is an interesting list compiled by the NYT. With links to the corresponding parts in the law.

    Here are the most significant changes to voting in the state, as written into the new law:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html

    It's clear that the law is intended to make it harder to vote, especially for minorities in urban centers. And it gives the Republican legislature control over the elections, which makes it way more suspect than the elections being controlled by an independent Elections Board.

    I can tell you one thing it DOESN'T do. It does not builds confidence in the Georgia elections. Which was supposed to be the purpose of this law. Much more likely it will create more chaos.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  23. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Did you now that when you shout, you're unintelligible? what is a chadnged?
     
  24. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    And by that, you mean much more open and transparent that blue state laws.... See, I knew you had it in you....
     
  25. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Name just ONE SINGLE way in which it was made more difficult. Then we can see if you actually know what the hell you're talking about.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021

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