The Downfall of the GOP

Sorry kids - this OP is not blaming Trump for this one.

Lets look at a typical Republican in 1981 - in this case one known as the "Godfather of Conservatism"

• "I am a conservative Republican, but I believe in democracy and the separation of church and state. The conservative movement is founded on the simple tenet that people have the right to live life as they please as long as they don't hurt anyone else in the process."
  (in a 1994 Washington Post essay)
• "The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others,"
  
• "I don't have any respect for the Religious Right."
  
• "Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass."
  
• "A woman has a right to an abortion."

Now some of you who do not remember back that far - or have just forgotten - might be shocked asking .. "how did we get here" - some of the above comments are now illegal in the GOP.

Senator Goldwater predicted the demise of the GOP - and labeled quite correctly the cause.

https://www.liberalslikechrist.org/a_Secular_Issue/Goldwater.html


While tempting - I do not think that this illogical - irrational and anti Republican position is a function of lack of intelligence, rather I believe this is a function of the political bandwagon effect .. once on the wagon - anyone who jumps off is going to get a bump on the head.

but - perhaps I have it all wrong .. anyone else able to explain this reversion from logic and reason into mindless moronic sheep.

 

The downfall of the POT has less to do with evangelicals or Trump and more to do with a move to the far right wing of the spectrum.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...meme-says-1956-republican-platform-was-prett/

 

I think that they are one and the same. When one looks at the demographics, an Evangelical is the most likely to fall into the far right spectrum. I’ve heard it said, if you fall for what Evangelicals preach, you’ll likely fall for anything. Still, when I listen to what the violent elements on the right are saying, it is more Christian Nationalism than White Nationalism, even though the distinction is more subtle than obvious, as the militant authoritarianism tends to cloud over everything else.

 

When reading about the last Republican Governor and the last Republican Senator in Oregon, one of their strategies was to avoid religion as much as possible, because they knew they could never win in Oregon while embracing the religious Right, as Oregon is one of the least religious states. Incidentally, the Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys are religious, the anti fascists they fight are not. I think it fair to say that the anarchists who inhabit the Northwest are one of the least religious groups in America. The violent right wing groups seem to be fighting for Christian Nationalism, something the anarchists abhor.

I think, after Goldwater’s trouncing in the election of ‘64 that the Republican Party went looking for voters and found them among the Evangelical crowd. Reagan specifically catered to them. I think that FOX found the evangelical crowd especially receptive to their messaging and have tailored their messaging for the evangelical crowd.

 

If the GOP still held to those values, they wouldn't have to cheat in order to stay in power.

 

You need a button for "both."

Yes, the Christian religion has been pushing its way into government, sometimes blatantly, such as placing a plaque of their ten commandments into a government building, but more often subtly, such as judicial appointments (like the latest SCOTUS appointment and her creepy "People of Praise" affiliation). The link in the OP, aside from the Goldwater topic, included an insert showing someone holding a sizable hunk of rock and saying "I don't care if you worship a rock, just don't throw it at me." Amen to that.

One of the reasons these things work for them, though, is the dumbing down of America. Our once-stellar public education system has decayed into a "just get them past this test for now so they can move to the next grade" type of teaching. Instead of teaching them critical thinking, they teach them the narrow skills to pass a specific set of tests, all in the name of showing off test scores and getting funding. They teach them basics, but not how to apply those basics to everyday life. School is not practical anymore, it's tactical.

The result is high school grads who can spell most words correctly, but don't know how to string together a coherent paragraph, as we see right here from time to time.

 

As I see it, the big difference between the Left and the Right in American politics is that the GOP has focused for several decades now on a message of fear. They have lost sight of providing solutions to the very issues their constituents experience every day and instead frame it as the fault of an "other".

The GOP just seems to flub it every time they are in charge of the economy, but rather than stop and evaluate the effectiveness of their proposals, they just deflect and repackage the same old talking points. Republican legislators seem to be greater sell-outs to corporate donors than Democrats, granted that may sound like a biased statement, but for the past 50 years, every economic downturn is always after the Republicans have controlled both houses of Congress and the presidency.

 

An excellent response - and very astute - which I find extremely troubling - given the level of a few of your responses to my negatory Blue comments .. not quite Dr. Jeckyl /Mr. Hyde but, you get my point.

Totally on point w/r to Strategy - avoid Religion - especially in conjunction with Abortion - Red has known to steer clear of Abortion for years .. and now its doubly bad due to the demographic time bomb.

While it is true that near every right wing nationalist group has had a religious element - not wanting to brand the entire RR with this brush - "however" that said - they are barely one step removed - voting as a block in relation to political activism.

Interestingly - Political activism like this is something Christa abhorred -

The whole Republican Party has made its hay since Goldwater catering to the RR .. catering to the mentality of the political bandwagon of the various factions of the mob.

What I find astounding and disturbing is how the party went from "there" - to -"here" in 40 years from logical and rational intelligent thought .. to ???

 

Not talking about the far right wing so agreed but , the religious right "is" the extreme right wing .. just not the far far right extremist that you are separating out .. the cream from the milk. .. the RR still being the milk.

Trump caters to both the right wing and the far far right wing .. as although the non "far right" will not engage in destruction of property and violence .. the action and apocalyptic of Trump message will still appeal to both segments.

 

I don't disagree. But it's the move to the far right by the rest of the base that has caused the party to go off the rails.

 

This ugly place is where the POT is now.

https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/the-insurrection-is-the-message-and

 

And yet there is a very long list of scientists who were religious.
34 Great Scientists Who Were Committed Christians (famousscientists.org)
You would think that if it was a matter of intellect, all scientists would either be religious or not religious. Yet that is obviously not true. Some of the smartest people I know are religious and some of the smartest people I know are not religious.

I look at this marvelous world and wonder how it could possibly be achieved with evolution. I can also take a look at this marvelous world and cannot understand how a supreme being can possibly exist. Either belief is beyond my understanding.

 

Don't think the "10 Commands plaque" is the greatest example but - Religious political activism is an issue - hence why this is illegal in Totalitarian nations .. Leaders know what a force this can be .. - as and this is what History teaches us.

Goldwater hits a number of "Republicanism" notes square on the head .. notice that these are also "Classical Liberal" notes - and your rock analogy ironically, is the Rock on which Christ based his teachings - teachings that the RR are violating in their political activism.

The dumbing down of America is a huge problem - 12 years of school and we fail to teach the basics of the founding principles - Legitimacy of Authority - Essential liberty - and so on 12 years and we fail to teach the basics of Philosophic thinking - Logic, Logical Fallacy, what constitutes a valid argument - critical thinking.

With out these basic tools - how is the average voter supposed to wade through the cacophony of fallacy and bad argument raining down on a daily basis from the Political Pundits and the mainstream Media.

 

I'd choose all three, in the order you have them.

 

Intelligent thought has been poo-pooed since the dawn of AM talk radio. Dumbing down the electorate, in the background, at work.

 

The smaller tent mentality does not help. People are quick to brand those people that were once consider to be republican or conservatives to be RINOs, traitors, defectors, never Trumpers. It is no longer a party embodies policies or governance. Your ability to troll the enemy is more important than the need to work together to better the country.

 

Dumbing down of the populace after the Church got power under Constantine would be another example.

 

Without looking, are any of those scientist on your list from the past hundred years? Polls show about 6-10 percent of scientist self identify as conservatives/Republicans. About 50-60 percent self identify as liberals/Democrats, with the remaining 30-44 percent being mostly independent. Only about 33% of scientists are religious. Having worked around many scientists, I would agree with those statistics, more or less.

 

Do you consider that 33% as being ignorant?

Buried within those statistics, you will find that there are more liberal religious scientists than conservative religious scientists.

 

Have you listened to Norm Chomsky speak on the subject? Where he claims the purpose of school is to keep people passive and obedient. The purpose of k-12 is to prevent critical thought. That a great deal of what is taught in school is little more than busy work. That those who rise in the sciences, and other areas, tend to be those who saw through the programming and rose above it.

 

To some extent. Same with engineers. I think that most are significantly more intelligent than the general population, but then there are some you wonder about. There is no empirical data to support the existence of a god. I am aware though, that there are plenty of Catholic and Jewish scientists and engineers, who don’t believe, but enjoy festivities at holidays and weddings. I don’t believe in the slightest, but I was raised Catholic and don’t mind attending an occasional community spaghetti dinner or church bazaar.

 

Indeed - his whole paradigm is based on the premise of active control - and I agree with this perspective.

but is this not the way it has always been - keep the sheep watered and fed as best as possible - but generally kept out of the way.

Today however these forces had become very sophisticated - Propaganda - including the State Sponsored kind - is well studied - and well funded .. Shaping your precious thoughts is a multi- Billion dollar industry - this figure not including the Advertising industry.

This is one of the reasons Noam called Russiagate "a farce" - the idea that Putin's influence over Trump is equal to these powers .. is akin to comparing a rain drop to a Hurricane.

 

Wars have been fought over religion. Stupid. If you follow your religion's orders to recruit others you are a moron. If you preach your religion or even bring it up you are a moron. A seriously religious person never mention their religion, they just practice it in private.

 

Trump was just a symptom of the disease. Maybe the symptom that ends up dealing the final blow... but not the cause.

I don't think it has anything to do with "intelligence" either. But there is a certain tendency among right wingers, especially the religious right, to fall for dogmatism. I'm not attempting to qualify anybody in this forum. And far far less am I trying to attack anybody's religious beliefs. But it is true that a tendency to believe in absolutes, in idols and religious figures, has carried into the political arena. This is something very foreign to us on the left. Because we will throw a politician, even one we had supported in the past, under the bus, as soon as they give us the first reason to do so. On the right there is more of a tendency to protect their leaders as if they were bestowed with "papal infallibility". And I don't think this works quite as well in politics as it does in Religion.

I actually think that, if they had stuck strictly to their religious beliefs being their main motivator, they would have been fine. I would never have voted for them... but they would have kept a solid base. Now their deep core base is a combination of a cult-like following (forum rules compel me to clarify that I am not necessarily referring to anybody in this group) and extreme right white supremacists. I don't think those two mix very well. And they most definitely scare off any moderates.

 

Religion has virtually nothing to do with approval by the right for Trump. If anything the religious tend to be more turned off because it is doubtful that Trump is deeply religious.

In addition, I know just about as many from the religious left who oppose Trump. If religion was the reason for the right favoring Trump, wouldn't those on the religious left tend to be more favorable towards Trump?

Are you sure it took you a long time to research the validity of this argument because it is weak at best.