Derek Chauvin Murder Trial is on

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Richard Franks, Mar 20, 2021.

  1. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    It could be true, but then we have two controversial findings.
    1. Floyd was complaining that he could not breath even before police tried to arrest him.
    2. Floyd was complaining that he could not breath while on the ground.
    If we believe Floyd, that he could not breath from the beginning then he had a problem with heart or lungs or altogether, so cardiologist is lying.
    If we don't believe Floyd, i.e. he initially was trying to mislead police, then it is understandable why police put him on the ground and did not let him go when he started complaining.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  2. Theordox

    Theordox Banned

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    I've already provided content to address your issues demonstrating there is an issue and contradiction in the statute wording .

    You have refused to address this issue and continue to claim speculation such as hundreds of millions of people recognizes Mr Floyd was murdered .

    Millions of people do not make up fallacy facts as you are doing , there isn't a single fact in this case that suggests murder .

    It is very apparent now to me that you are using the word murder in attempt to neurological influence readers into believing Mr Floyd's death was more dark and sinister than it actually was .

    If I were a judge and you were in my courtroom stating fallacy facts , I'd have you arrested for perjury .
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  3. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Chauvin is on trial on murder charges, that's a fact. All the evidence, facts and testimony being introduced by the prosecution are in support of the murder charges whether you agree or not and whether you like it or not. That's also a fact. That you think there isn't a single fact in this case that suggests murder is as irrelevant and nonsensical as the rest of your post which I won't waste my time addressing. For the umpteenth time the topic of this discussion is not about me no matter how much you want to make it about me. In fact, it's getting to the point where just about all your posts are mostly irrelevant and not worth responding to so I will act accordingly.
     
  4. Theordox

    Theordox Banned

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    Indeed it is fact that Mr Chauvin is on trial for 3rd degree murder and the prosecution are calling witness's and/or experts to the stand to give their opinions on the cause of death , which the defense and defenses expert witness's will argue .

    ''The exact statutory definition of third-degree murder is "[t]he unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated without any design to effect death''

    The definition of murder in the 3rd degree is wordy without exact description .

    It is quite clear that involuntary manslaughter is more of an appropriate charge :

    ''Involuntary manslaughter is distinguished from other forms of homicide because it does not require deliberation or premeditation, or intent.''
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
    Buri likes this.
  5. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Try to be more accurate and not deliberately misleading, Chauvin has 3 charges against him. 2 of the 3 use the word MURDER:

    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6935897-Derek-Chauvin-Second-degree-murder-charge

    This is one of them, the most serious:

    609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

    Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.

    Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

    (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19
     
  6. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its "Murder Death Kill" (quoting a movie from the 90s).

     
  7. Theordox

    Theordox Banned

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    I have already provided a legal and lawful challenge of statute law in the use of the word murder and provided factual contradiction .

    That challenge would also legally and lawfully apply to murder in the second degree .

    Unintentional and murder are mismatched words and contradictory , they should never be used in conjunction .

    In answer to all charges , Mr Floyd caused his own demise by using counterfeit bills and resisting arrest .

    If it were not for his own actions on May 25th 2020 , he would still be alive and not encountered Derek Chauvin on that day .

    ''In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state.''
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  8. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Off topic and irrelevant. Nothing above has anything to do with the Chauvin murder.

    The above ad nauseum repeated garbage is also off topic. The topic of this discussion is about the murder of Floyd by Chauvin (see topic title for reference). Floyd is not on trial for your plagiarized fantasy of "causing his own demise".

    Get the story straight, you've been at this long enough by now. If it were not for the actions and inactions of Chauvin that resulted in the death of Floyd, Floyd would still be alive today (assuming no other fatal events).

    If you have something intelligent to discuss that's actually on topic, I might respond, otherwise your posts are getting to be a total waste of time for me.
     
  9. Theordox

    Theordox Banned

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    Get your story straight , If it were not for the actions and in-actions of Mr Floyd . Mr Floyd would still be alive today (assuming no other fatal events).

    Science 101 : In quantum mechanics, Schrödinger's cat is a thought experiment that illustrates an apparent paradox of quantum superposition.

    Reality 101: Get your story straight , If it were not for the actions and in-actions of Mr Floyd . Mr Floyd would still be alive today (assuming no other fatal events).
     
  10. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So the defense is that Floyd was complaining that he was having trouble breathing so Chauvin and the other two stooges decided to pin him down and put their full body weight on his neck. Yep, that makes sense. His troubles are over....ROFL
     
  11. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Yet another use-of-force expert witness testified today. The defense has yet to successfully challenge any expert witness who has testified thus far.

     
  12. Richard Franks

    Richard Franks Well-Known Member

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  13. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    If any person complains about inability to breath and then overpower two police officer, any reasonable policeman could only think that Floyd was bluffing.
    There is o way around it.
    To me, both pulmonologist and cardiologist were bias, they were trying to put too much emotions in their answers.
    They are telling half truth, because sure, Floyd would not die if he did not fight with the police, but he fought, could not sustain the fight and died.
    It is sad event, but an altercation with the police is dangerous and risky endeavor.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That may be, but a knee or chokehold is not necessarily "bodily harm" if it doesn't result in permanent effects.
    Which is why I think your point is irrelevant.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, when you're physically struggling with police officers and it takes four people to hold you down, you having a special medical issue that puts you close to death is not going to be the first thing on their minds.

    Especially when you are a big strong man.

    Now that being said, maybe the man did have some reason to struggle. I've covered in other threads how people who were arrested did not receive adequate medical attention for their health issues and died as a result.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  16. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The cardiologist today ruled out heart failure and drugs.
    A nonissue. Did Chauvin's actions illegally bring about the death George Floyd?
    Of course not.
     
  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    "Dead" is permanent.
    So, you think the point above in blue is irrelevant?
     
  18. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Every single expert witness (police and medical) so far thinks so. None thinks otherwise. Unless the defense can bring its own expert witnesses who will all contradict the testimony to date, it's pretty much a slam dunk. That of course doesn't mean the jury will reach a guilty verdict even if it is a slam dunk. And that's one of the biggest problems with juries, just one has to believe there is some kind of doubt. I certainly don't know what I would suggest as a better system in court cases. Trials can be conducted without a jury if both sides agree and that would leave the verdict up to a judge. But unfortunately judges are far from perfect too.
     
  19. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The witnesses are saying Floyd was killed by Chauvin, not by a health issue.
     
  20. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the sum and substance of the prosecution argument is that Chauvin acted against policy and sound judgment causing the death of George Floyd. They have gone to great lengths to show that Floyd's health was not a cause.
    I don't see how Chauvin avoids at least a manslaughter conviction.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We were specifically discussing things that were non-permanent.

    Your above point in blue is not your post that I quoted you on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  22. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I view it as somewhere in the grey zone between manslaughter and accidental.

    Plus, Chauvin's action would not really be entirely unexpected in that sort of situation. A mistake, but one that was somewhat understandable, done in the "heat of the moment".

    Normally for manslaughter to apply you have to do something that was clearly wrong, which was not so absolutely and entirely the case here.
    (refering of course to his decision with the information that was available to him at the time before the death)
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It wasn't absolutely clearly illegal.

    I mean the wording of the law does not really precisely describe a situation like this.

    Besides from that, I don't think that doing something that is illegal which accidentally leads to a death is necessarily enough by itself to constitute manslaughter. It's not the fact that the action was illegal which makes it manslaughter.

    The real question is whether the action would be expected to create substantial risk of death.

    That is where we fall into a grey area. Excessive use of force which (normally) carried a very small risk of death.
    And when it might not have been necessarily entirely clear that that use of force was excessive at the time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  24. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The old “I thought he was bluffing so we had no choice but to choke him to death defense”....Interesting.....ROFL....Well , I guess we will see how that works out. My prediction stands:

    Chauvin will be convicted of being partially responsible for Floyd’s death and receive between 8 and 12 years in prison and will end up doing between 4 and six years in State prison unless he chokes somebody else to death then he might end up doing 15-20 years. What is your prediction? By this time next month the answers will be known to all. I am willing to bet hard cash. What say you?
     
  25. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I bet Chauvin and his fellow stooges wish they would have simply gotten Floyd’s information took the bill and given it to the Secret service for investigation. That would have been the smart thing to do. However these idiots were trained to be big tough intrusive cops and now they are all fired and being charged with felonies and prison time. Until we retrain and refocus the purpose of law enforcement officers here in America more idiotic tragic deaths will continue to happen. It’s really pretty simple if you look at the big picture.
     

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