The AR-15 follies: Here we go again!

Yes, the Glock has a unique cocking mechanism—partial cocking with rearward slide motion and completed full cocking with the trigger pull. However, it is not really comparable to a DA revolver because it doesn’t have “second strike” capability inherent to a true DA. Also, because each cocking sequence is a combination of rearward slide motion and trigger pull, every trigger pull is identical. The first is not a longer pull than subsequent ones. The only difference is the first cocking uses energy from the user racking the slide to move to “half ****” and the second uses energy from the fired round after breach unlocking to move the slide rearward and half **** the striker. The travel and pull weight of every Glock trigger pull is the same. Only the source of energy to move the slide rearward changes.

Even though the Glock has the unique half cocking during trigger pull design, it’s still a 5.5 lb trigger (every pull) very similar to the gun I use. The reason I need a manual safety is so the trigger can be “locked” 100% if needed when the firearm is unholstered and in use. Both my firearm (with manual safety off) and a Glock can easily fire unintentionally if the trigger is snagged by brush or pushed rearward by snow or mud packing the trigger guard if the user falls. The Glock half **** feature does not provide any measure of safety in these scenarios.


Glocks (and other guns without external safeties) are ok for self defense where the firearm is holstered except for when actively shooting. In applications like mine or actual combat, the trigger needs the option to be disabled when the firearm is unholstered and being manipulated but not actively shooting. A heavy double action trigger isn’t even really “safe” in my application. If my finger can pull the trigger, something else (brush, snow, wardrobe, etc.) can “pull” it as well. Only a manual safety can prevent this.

 

I never said that Glocks had all the capability of a revolver, I said they were a good companion for one if you wanted similar function. Of you want maximum safety from accidental discharge ? Just leave a loaded Glock un charged with no cartridge in the chamber. It’s condition is obvious by feel with the trigger position.

Besides, until your ready to fire, the finger should never be on the trigger. The trigger is ALWAY PROTECTED in most firearms including Glocks by keeping the finger off the trigger. Nothing gets into action as quickly and securely as a Glock of double action revolver. It’s not secure fumbling for a safety with your finger on the trigger while pulling a firearm out of either a pocket or a holster. The two actions take a lot of practice where a non safety with a finger off a protected trigger is totally safe.

The absolute best feature of revolvers is the ability to test their full function after dropping or subjecting them to extreme conditions without actually test firing . Revolvers also have the option of true SA longer range trigger pull for true versatility. It’s also the safest way to handle a fiream in the darkness. It’s an intuitive weapon that nearly everyone can operate. It doesn’t vary much from one to another.

Like I said before, the only safety I would have on my semi auto firearms is a de cocker . That’s it.

 

You can yabber all you want till the cows come home, are in the pen, slaughtered and eaten. It means nothing. We have produced EVIDENCE of the history of firearms from our links. You have produced NOTHING ! in a court where the truth is actually required , you’d lose all the time just blathering. People who just talk and never produce evidence are unreliable in the real world. Welcome to it.

 

That’s incorrect. The Glock can easily become a single action with follow up shots. With the finger fully depressed after firing, the striker is near full **** and the take up is minimal unlike a revolver in DA. Release the trigger all the way, and it reverts back to a light but true DA mode.But all Glocks when drawn like any firearm, should be carried with your finger off the trigger and outside the guard.

 

I guess your limited knowledge of firearm identification is holding you back from making ligit arguments. Pistol grips have a big effect on rapid fire capability, something hunters have little use for. In addition, its just one characteristic of these regulated firearms, not all.

 

That’s hilarious. Since Heller, ten plus years ago, the conservative Supreme Court has not struck down any firearm regulations.....wtf are they Waiting for ?

 

No, it only took a short gust of wind to prove that the additional gun control you support simply drives determined killers to use far deadlier, crude and homemade WMDs that kill more people than the guns you fear so much.

Therefore, stricter gun control laws will result in more homicides, not fewer.

 

Considering ANYONE can buy an AR15 variant in private sales with impunity now , there is little use to make a home made WMD which kills more users then kills victims in a mass murder.

I’d welcome a world where only the qualified can have these weapons. The only reason we have this debate is that firearms in general are so easy to be had. Gun rights proponents are promoting UNLAWFUL activities.....regardless of the fire arms.

The “AR15” and hI cap pistols used most for mass murders would be a mute discussion if only those qualified had them like the Supreme Court has always upheld.

 

I didn't notice any such evidence. Was this evidence of any relevance to the points being made and discussed in this thread?

I'm pretty sure you haven't produced any cites to back up your claim about an 18th century court case about regulating scary looking guns.

I've offered to back up any of my statements if anyone wants a cite. So far there have been no requests.

I'm pretty sure there won't be any requests either. Most people know that what I say is true, and that requesting a cite will just lead to proof of that. But time will tell.

I can identify a firearm just fine.

My arguments are perfectly legitimate. That's why no one has been able to challenge any of them.

What is that big effect?

It's something that "people who defend themselves" have a use for.

And actually rapid follow up shots can be useful in hunting as well.

They've been waiting for five real conservatives to be appointed to the Supreme Court.

Hopefully now we've finally got it.

 

Keeping the finger off the trigger does not make an unholstered firearm “safe”. That is the most irresponsible statement on firearms I’ve ever seen on a forum. You obviously know nothing of the history of accidental discharges of Glocks. Many cops have been injured when things like drawstrings on clothing have “pulled” the trigger—no finger in the trigger guard at all.

Please, any third parties reading these posts disregard dagosa in anything firearms related. Just the act of keeping the finger off the trigger until ready to fire does not mean an unholstered firearm is safe and can not fire. In practical applications (military being one) a firearm outside a holster and not ready to fire imminently is common. In these cases anything from drawstrings (many Glock accidents happen with wardrobe trigger interference) to things in the environment like branches or brush and things like snow or mud being forced against the trigger can cause the gun to fire even though the operator’s finger is not on the trigger. This is one reason the Glock submitted to the most recent US Modular Handgun Submission Trials had a manual safety—the US military requires a manual external safety.

Also, the notion it’s difficult to disengage a manual safety while maintaining trigger discipline (finger off the trigger) is absurd. In fact, the handgun I use most has the manual safety on the frame where your trigger finger should be indexed on the draw and when not actively shooting. This makes it impossible to manipulate the safety with your finger on the trigger.

On other guns with traditional external thumb safeties, the operation of the safety while keeping the finger off the trigger is very simple and intuitive. Green military recruits learn to disengage a safety on both their rifle/carbine and sidearm (if applicable) with no problem. Dagosa has no problem disengaging a safety on his hunting rifle before taking a shot. The idea manual safeties are complicated or unsafe is preposterous as evidenced by their existence on all military weapons and likely all rifles and shotguns dagosa claims he owns.

Again, for those third parties here that may be interested in firearm safety, dagosa’s comments here are very irresponsible. Finger off the trigger does not make an unholstered firearm safe...period

Also the reference to a loaded Glock in a pocket is bizarre. Nobody who understands firearm safety or Glock actions would say such a thing. Glocks are only “safe” in a holster that completely covers the trigger and trigger guard....period. Never carry a Glock in a pocket. Ever

 

No. The action of the Glock cocking mechanism is identical on every shot. You are mistaking trigger reset for cocking action. Releasing the trigger allows reset, but the striker is still not fully cocked until the trigger is pulled again. It always takes trigger pull to completely **** the Glock striker—on every shot.

Love the effects of the PF auto censoring on this discussion. LOL

 

This is not entirely true. Full auto operation depends on having a full auto bolt carrier as well. There are modern AR-15’s with full auto carriers and ones without. So saying the only change needed is a full auto sear is not technically accurate as a blanket statement.

 

That’s scary looking arms.....

 

Of course yours is just another post of blather un sourced
This is now the fourth reference from different sources you’ve failed to read.
https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-complete-history-of-the-ar-15-rifle

 

Quote from Scalia
“Some undoubtedly are [permissible] because there were some that were acknowledged at the time” the Constitution was written, Scalia said. He cited a practice from that era known as “frighting,” where people “carried around a really horrible weapon just to scare people, like a head axe or something. That was, I believe, a misdemeanor.”
See video for non readers.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/antonin-scalia-guns_n_1715969

 

Nope, that’s it.
the diference between a full auto and semi in AR15

That there were MINOR changes to both models for reliability purposes, is NOT material to that simple alteration with the sear. . The AR15 was select fire BEFORE the m16 was even named. Stoner originally worked for Armalite.
Great name for a Guy on pot....but we digress. Show your evidence.

 

My only contention is that since Biden is currently pandering to the powerful and wealthy anti-gun lobby by proposing to ban "assault weapons" and "hi-cap" magazines, he will simply drive determined killers to using much deadlier WMDs which will result in more homicides.

Our money and efforts to reduce all homicides could much better be devoted to more accessible mental health care and more comprehensive follow up care.
This approach would be more expensive than the feel-good-do-nothing nonsense that Biden & Co. is peddling but as with most things, you get what you pay for.

I, too, don't want criminals and the violently mentally ill to have access to such potentially deadly weapons but recognize that firearms are just one of several things that determined mass killers can use.

As others have noted, gun violence, WMD violence etc are simply symptoms.

It's the violent behavior that needs to be addressed and that can be best done by dramatically upgrading our substandard mental health care system. There's far too much untreated anger and overall violence in American society and that's the cause of our dismal homicide rate.

 

No problem. What I post is always fact, not uneducated opinion.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...l-auto-semi-auto-only-ar-15-bolt-carrier/amp/

 

First of all I did answer it, you just didn’t like the answer. second of all semiautomatics are not the most used weapon in mass shootings or in gun shootings in general, hand guns are. Third I would stand right in the room of gun victims or their families and say the exact same thing I am to you. You know why? Because I’m not such a weakling coward that I feel the need to strip people or their right to own them for the actions of a very small amount of people. People like you are so cowardly that because you are afraid of something you think everyone else should be denied it too. Well I’m here to tell you that’s now how the world works. And guess what bad **** is going to keep happening long after you and I are gone and guns are still gonna be here including civilian owned ar-15s

Also the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It’s purpose is to keep lace curtain mother ****ers like you from trending on civil rights. I tell you right now my state will never bow to federally imposed gun bans. So when you come to raid for them, make sure your coward ass is the first through the door.

 

And your point is, it’s so easy to make the AR15 into full auto, they had to trim off a section to keep the bolt from seating properly and necessitating some more parts then a sear ?

That’s hilarious. It just reinforces how much more alike the AR15 was when conceived to the later m16.

Again, you’re only talking about Today’s AR15. The AR15 was designed as a military weapon. That you have to now tone it down by relieving a part during construction only emphasizes this fire arm IS a weapon of war. Forget that over 99% of the time we spent traing and qualifying on it was in semi auto.

 

Nope, you’re a promoter of criminals getting firearms....you promote none regulation and anyone from the insane, underaged and criminals getting firearms....

 

Oh, you now claim the hand guns are not semi automatics. The primary weapon of ALL MASS SHOOTINGS ARE SEMI AUTOMATICS. Is that clear ? You’re statement is delusional. The AR15 platform and the semi auto hand gun are both weapons of war. Both are issued to the US military and used in war. That makes then weapons of war....
So you’re now declassifying handguns in the military as not semi auto ? Unbelievable

 

They are 100 percent not weapons of war, more than the constitution makes no distinction anyways.

 

Biden is pandering to people who want universal background checks to help ferret out unqualified people from possessing firearms. Yup, that part is true. The right supports anyone having access to firearms of any type and any place. We know that’s illegal. So the right is for the criminal access to firearms.

 

That’s not what you said in your quote. You claimed that handguns were used instead of semi automatics in mass shoitungs. My claim is, they’re almost entirely semi auto . Check out the facts,.....I did.