Body camera videos show 13-year-old Adam Toledo put hands up before fatal police shooting in Chicago

Unfortunately for the kid he dropped the gun behind the fence instead of out in front of him where the cop could clearly see it. It was a split second judgement call in the dark.

 

As the mother stated and I stated in my post. So what is the false narrative?

 

You're right... there was cam-video of him (from behind) throwing the gun behind a place in a fence where a number of the pickets were missing.

The cop was absolutely blameless in this whole stupid mess... but I wonder how many millions will be shelled out to the 'grieving family' by chickenshit city bureaucrats...?

 

Not when you factor in the rate of violent crime.

Commit more violent crime and you put yourself in harms way at a much higher rate (guess who commits violent crime at a ridiculously high rate). Your numbers here do NOT say what you think they say.....not even close.

You can post data all day long, but you have to actually interpret it correctly.

 

Unarmed? The gun he tossed right before the OIS was recovered from the scene.


Videos before CBS got done with them, here.

https://t.co/b1P814LGjN?amp=1

 

it was a fleeing illegal

 

disobeyed orders, resisted arrest, illegal immigrant

felon in possession of a firearm.

 

Except you stated that his hands were in a firing position, which is clearly not true, the kid was surrendering to the officer. He obeyed every command the officer gave him, he stopped, he dropped his weapon, and he showed his hands. The idea that the officer gave these commands and was caught off guard by the kid is something I find to be a bit iffy. That's a very critical mistake that the officer made

It's not made up, you can read about it here

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/0...police-ruben-roman-chicago-police-department/

Also, it was literally caught on video by a surveillance camera, it was the adult who fired the weapon.. not the kid.. and then by the time the police arrived the kid had the weapon, at which point it appears the gun didn't have any bullets left in it.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/fatal-police-shooting-13-year-adam-toledo/story?id=77115626




The adult fired the weapon, and the kid died for it.. even as the kid made an attempt to surrender to the police... this adult he was with was a major league piece of ****. Information is still coming out, but it appears that the adult fired the weapon, and then used the kid as a scapegoat and had the kid take the gun by the time the police arrived

 

uhh.. yeah you just said it yourself... he tossed the weapon.. hence he was unarmed. He had his hands up, and the weapon was out of reach at the moment he was shot.

 

Nobody has said otherwise. You seem to struggle with following a discussion. CBS are dishonest vile hacks for editing out the gun.

 

If he turns his head towards the officer at that moment where is his back relative to the officer? He was not hiding the gun behind his back, there is even a photo frame showing that precise moment.

 

Saying they edited out the gun suggests they removed the gun from the footage to appear as if the kid was unarmed when he was shot. In actuality, the kid was unarmed when he was shot, this is not an edit, it is the reality of what occurred

 

You've gone from claiming they didn't edit out the gun, to justifying their editing out of the gun. CBS is really vile, evil, irresponsible and untrustworthy.

If it was unimportant, why did they go to the trouble of hiding that the suspect was armed with a deadly weapon throughout all but the final seconds of resisting arrest?

 

Uhh nope.. I am saying they did not edit out any weapon, because the footage they showed was genuine. The kid really was unarmed when he was shot. Hence why I commented "this is not an edit, it is the reality of what occurred" (duh)

 

Sure are a lot of armchair experts coming in to add their 10c worth - and all with the benefit of eagle eyed hindsight. Lets be clear there are lots of variables that could have played out differently.

The adult could have kept the gun instead of turning the kid immediately into an accomplice - he didn't.
The kid could have elected not to take it - but did.
The kid could have dropped the firearm or disposed of it sooner before the confrontation in the alley - he didn't.
The pursuit could have been through a space with better lighting or the officer could have caught up with him in space with better lighting so that both the officer and the kid could see clearly - that didn't happen either.
The officer could have known he was chasing a child - apparently he didn't, at least not his exact age.
The kid could have called out 'I give up /I surrender /don't shoot/anything' to make his intention to surrender clear (if that was his intention) and he was thinking clearly enough do do so instead of just panicking, which would be natural. - but that didn't happen.
Finally the officer could have fired and missed or just wounded the suspect - he didn't.

So - a whole lot of 'maybes' that could have changed things (but didn't) and probably heaps more that could be included.

Point is the officer only had a heartbeat to make a decision in poor light conditions after a call of 'shots fired'. And with benefit of hindsight maybe, knowing ALL of the above in advance the officer could have changed what happened. But he didn't have the benefit of knowing all of the above in advance. And that's the basic on which his actions have to be judged.

The point is this is not a Chauvin situation. Those officers and plenty of time to make decisions, to observe the suspect and change strategies as warranted. This officer had a heartbeat of time to decide what to do. And if that's going to become to 'go to/gold' standard for judging Police (or civilians for that matter ) in similar situations no-one will do the job, least of all most of the critics here.

 

Was 13 year old Adam Toledo a man, conversely Is 17 year old Kyle Rittenhouse a boy:

 

looks like a bad shoot, he clearly had his hands up

other question, why was a 13 year old out at night with a gun, putting himself in this dangerous situation

I need more information, why was the cop chasing him? why did the teen run?

this is why I think concealed carry should be automatic, not have to get permission, the risk of open carry from getting shot by a cop is high

remember cops adrenaline rises too, running makes them make decisions under that influence, best just to give up when a cop has you - the kid payed for it with his life, the officer will pay with it with his job, public ostracization and possibly criminal charges (not sure on that one)

 

"Nearby surveillance video shows 21-year-old Ruben Roman shooting at a passing vehicle with Toledo by his side, according to prosecutors in a bond hearing for Roman. Roman and Toledo then are said to have ducked into an alley, where officers found them shortly after."

ah, so there was a shooting, just not by the kid, sad case.. but could have also been avoided by the adult not shooting at passing vehicles too, sad this adult put this 13 year old at risk like this

 

Lol.

He obeyed every command?

So the cop literally screaming over and over to "stop!" And "show me your hands".... he had to say it over and over because the kid was obeying. That makes zero sense.

if you raise your hands, at some point the have to cross from your sides up along your waist which is firing position. Spinning around and raising your hands past your belt area when the cop thinks you have a gun is not smart.

But it wasn't a mistake for the kid to run down a dark alley away from the cops with a gun?

So backwards.

You can tell when somebody is running away from you that the gun had no more rounds?

It's odd to me that you place all this blame on the cops and have said zero about the kids action.

At 2:30 in the morning. In a gang.

This "kid" was a piece of **** as well.

 

That's a testable statement, and it's falsified by the fact that CBS news did edit out the deadly weapon that the young man, resisting arrest, possessed throughout all but the final moments during his commision of a felony.

You are attempting to argue contradictory propositions:
i) CBS did not edit out the gun.
ii) CBS news did edit out the gun, but their edit is unimportant.

You cannot logically argue both that CBS did not edit out the gun, and that the edit was unimportant. I suspect that once the fog lifts for you that you'll drop i) and focus on ii).

Therefore, I asked you why; if CBS' edit to remove the gun is unimportant, why did they do it?

 

Nonsense, this stupid kid killed himself through his idiocy/criminality. I feel so sorry for this poor officer now being hung out to dry. When black people start acting like everyone else they'll be treated like everyone else. I and no member of my family would ever participate in any gun violence.

Race is UTTERLY irrelevant here, I don't give a damn if a black cop had killed a white kid under the same circumstances. The cop would be utterly right and the suspect would be to blame.

 

You literally just quoted two commands that the kid complied with. If he did not stop and show his hands you might have a point, but the video shows he clearly did both. He threw down the weapon first, and then he showed his hands.

You're missing the point entirely, the point is the kid never fired the weapon. You had said to me that I made up the information suggesting it was the adult who fired the weapon, when it fact it was you who made up the information that the kid was firing at passing cars. The kid never fired the weapon, the only reason why he even had a gun to begin with was the piece of **** adult who fired the weapon used the kid as his scapegoat when police arrived.

There is no information to suggest that he was in a gang, but it is quite possible the adult he was with was in a gang and was recruiting a kid. The kid himself had no criminal record, but had been on the missing person's list, and the parents didn't even know where he was. The kid did not deserve to die, you can spin it and make up information about him all you like to make it seem justified that a 13 year old was shot and killed. I know you really want this kid's death to be justified, which is why you were making up information about him acting violently to begin with, but both logically and ethically you are wrong for doing so. I also realize you might just be trolling, and were making those posts for your own amusement, which would also be no restitution to the morality of what you posted

 

but even CBS news fully acknowledges the kid was previously armed. They showed visuals of the moment he was shot, at which point he was in fact unarmed. He really was unarmed at that moment, this was not an edit

The kid was ordered to stop, he was ordered to drop his weapon and show his hands. He did all three, he dropped the weapon first and then he showed his hands... which was the exact moment he was shot

 

Odd that given you've defended every white officer killing someone and blamed the one black officer killing someone which happened at midnight in a dark location when officers responded to a call about someone being attacked. Perhaps you can give a link to a post of yours that prove otherwise?

 

Well they do now that the police department released the unedited footage that shows that he was armed with a deadly weapon upto the instant before he was shot, but, the CBS News article accompanying the cropped video did not directly acknowledge that Toledo was armed.

repeatedly, and he repeatedly ignored these lawful commands and continued to flee.

He stopped fleeing, turned to face the officer, threw his weapon behind the fence, out of view of the officer rather than in front of him where the officer could have seen it. I can see the upward motion of his hands, from when they are low and holding a loaded weapon, and it looks to me like they continue past shoulder height, which would be where they would stop if he was moving to a firing position, and continue up, though it's not clear, I think you are probably right. And, now with the scene secured, and the weapon recovered, I'm confident that the gun wasn't in his hands as he raised them. But, at live speed forward before these other facts were confirmed, I can't tell that he dropped the gun, nor can I tell if he is coming to a firing position or raising his hands. To me, it looks like he starts with his hands forward and arcs forward, the same motion he would use to move to a firing position rather than from the side and out and then up, like a jumping jack.

We don't do lynch mobs in this country. We need a thorough investigation, sworn testimony taken followed by a careful deliberate weighing of the evidence before reaching a final conclusion.