NY judge grants injunction against COVID-19 vaccine mandate for health care workers

It looks like the constitution is more valid than mandates which may or may not apply as there is no guarantee the vaccine will positively save or protect any particular person.

What I’m seeing here is a problem with future vaccine mandates in that what purpose would they serve if there are still unvaccinated people roaming amongst us? The vaccine should be taken voluntarily like when I got jabbed. No one should be forced to have something injected into their body by the government, a government that doesn’t even follow its own life saving mandates.

 

Great, hopefully justice is served and the idiots imposing the mandates are beaten and the idiots supporting them are completely let down.

 

You should get your eyesight, or something, checked, because just the SNIP of the article you provided contradicts the implication of your OP, that some judge has ruled that the Constitution does not give government the authority to mandate vaccines. What the judge ruled, in the case of only these 17 Uticans, is that the Constitution entitles them to a RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION.

As to the logic of the, "problem," you see with future mandates,(highlighted above, in red), that you can see it serving no purpose, if there are still any other, unvaccinated people, in the population: that only shows an utter lack of understanding of how both infections, and herd immunity, work. Though immunity never reaches 100%, that does not make it worthless for anyone to be vaccinated-- 75% immunized, for example, offers substantial benefit over 50%, or 60%, or even some benefit over 70%. And the environment in which the unvaccinated are encountered, plays a big part in the risk. This is the rationale behind requiring people who interact with many others, in close spaces-- like teachers, healthcare workers, & businesses with many employees (working together)-- to get vaccinated, or to be regularly tested.

 

For a disease that they may or may not have, that to this day the vast majority of citizens haven't caught. There's been 5 x more vaccinated than sickened Americans accounting for the entirety of cases. The vaccine mandate is authoritarian in nature, claiming that the government can decide the interest of the public good.

I disagree, it may serve the interest of the public good but it cannot decide it. Only WE the people have the exclusive right to lawfully decide what our interests are.

 

Vaccination requirements are indeed constitutional — the USSC has actually already ruled on it in Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11

Just because you disagree with something doesn’t make it unconstitutional. That word has legal meaning.

As to the vaccine requirements, I no longer care. Everyone I care for is vaccinated, if people don’t want to take it — fine. But I completely support businesses setting their own policy for employees and customers. I also support individual states setting their own policy.

 

Oh bloody **** too. Jesus God Almighty this is about whether we LIVE OR DIE you ninny, This endless argument about our FFRREEDDOOMMMM to die alone because it just hurts too much to breathe anymore is just about as silly as people can BE.

If you really CAN'T understand this then try to understand that LOTS of foreigners are laughing at us and beginning not to buy our stuff. After all, how can people THIS idiotic make anything reliable or good?

 

The US had an exporting problem long before covid, my dear far left friend. The issue is about our autonomy as human beings. If we surrender our autonomy to the government, then our individual livelihood doesn't exist. How far does it go from "take the vaccine or else" to "do x/y/z or else?" Not very far at all.

Again, the irony is that Liberals used to be on the right side of the fight. You used to fight for autonomy(albeit only purely for abortions) and for its necessary reasons. But now that a greater interest(covid vaccinations.) has appeared, the left is willing to concede this argument.

I'm not willing to concede the argument, not because I necessarily would want a weakened State(I am a Fascist after all), but because the State only exists insofar as the people themselves exist. And we don't exist without our autonomy.

 

If this was Ebola there would be flying squads going door to door checking vaccines and if you let the mask slip down someone would shoot you dead in the street and probably get a medal for it.

 

We also don't exist if we're dead, autonomous or not

(And fascism ABSOLUTELY precludes the autonomy of the individual. That is its most salient and defining characteristic)

 

Thats prolly true, but only because ebola has death rate around 50%. Covid has a death rate around ...much much less. So very much less! All viruses have a death rate, btw. Unless (prior to covid) you would have advocated for shooting anyone who coughs for creating an infintesimal risk of infection (it could've been ebola!), then we can agree the argument is about severity and level of risk, yes?

 

Actually that depends on your view of it(also, it depends on what you look at, Hitler's National Socialism or Mussolini's Italy(I subscribe to Mussolini's view on the matter.) While the individual cannot supplant the State, the individual cannot be nonexistent within the State. Without the individual, the State does not exist.

Think of the FAA issue that's in the current events thread. The threat of even 20% of workers holding out in any situation causes a mass shortage. If the State were to simply ignore the will, prosperity and well being of its people, it will collapse. Perhaps militaristic threats will hold it for a time, but only until an equilibrium is reached where the people feel they can exert their will against the State.

Persons and State must coexist for a cohesive existence. Where People give authority to the State, the State also recognizes the liberties, freedoms, rights afford to the People. It's this cohesive government that makes for strong governments. Weak governments are ones that either cannot get consent through their ideas, or attempt to force them through fiat/military force.

That is, in other words the Biden Administration is a weak government, weaker then Trump's ever was.

 

I think maybe the media propaganda has succeeded in convincing you that nationalism = fascism... which it of course does not. The two can be the same, but most often arent. On what basis do you consider yourself a 'fascist'?

(I recall you've clarified this before, but I have forgotten... )

 

The mandate may not even exist... which of course would engender the courts to favor the constitution, which provably does exist.

 

That's not necessarily logical thinking. People who see it that way are thinking in terms of black & white. We need to see this in a more mathematical way.
Even if 100% of a population takes this type of vaccine, it may not be enough to stop the spread. And if only 40% of the population takes the vaccine, in some cases that might be enough to stop the spread in that population. It really depends on the numbers and particular factors of the situation. But the reality probably is that no one really knows for sure.

People who think you can't spread the virus if you have been vaccinated are just being stupid and ignorant.
The same of those who think it's impossible for a person who has not been vaccinated to not spread the virus.

 

This type of ruling may not necessarily apply to all types of vaccines, but rather this one in particular, given the circumstances of the situation.

There are numerous ways in which this particular vaccine is not like the other common ones.
We don't need to go through the whole list here, because that's been explained in other threads.

 

Agreed. The problem is that even a 1% rate is still THREE AND ONE HALF MILLION PEOPLE in a population of 350 millions if EVERYONE gets the virus and they DO with COVID.

 

People have much better reasons to not want to take the vaccine than the particular religious reasons that are involved here. (If you are familiar with the specifics of what that "religious" reason actually is)

 

I'm not seeing how that makes any sense. Please explain.

You do realize people can still spread the virus even though they are vaccinated, correct? The transmission rate just MIGHT be lower.

 

A 1% fatality rate from covid is only achievable in the symptomatic spectrum (it can actually get higher in the symptomatic spectrum, closer to 2%). But as we know, asymptomatic covid infection is quite common, which means your math is missing some important variables and the total (actual) fatality rate is much lower. Just how much lower would only be determinable with mass antibody testing, since we don't currently know how many people got covid and didn't even know it. All we know right now is its somewhere between 'a lot of people' and 'everyone' got covid and didn't even know it.

 

Ev

Even a million dead would still be traumatic to our society, and that's a good deal less than half. Hell 650;000 (and counting) has upset us quite a bit

 

I don't know what you mean; as I had said, I was going only by the SNIP, provided in the OP.

 

650,000 is the number of people who died with covid, not from it. Certainly many of them did die from covid. But some of them died from other pre-existing conditions, and most of them died with pre-existing conditions and with covid, which makes it exceedingly difficult to determine how many of them would have survived had they not had covid. Certainly some, definitely not all, where in between, no one seems to be trying to figure out (and admittedly it would be very difficult to do so).

Covid is large threat to the already unhealthy, and a tiny threat to the healthy.

 

A 2% population drop theoretically can cause Armageddon. Do you really want to test that theory? If you're in the hospital because you are one of the 5% the vaccine fails and you were infected by someone demanding their freedom (to spread a disease) are you going to say "Oh well, he has his rights. I and others may die because of him but that's the way it is."? Read the history of Typhoid Mary, She too was a carrier who refused to live by the rules set upon her. She'd get released and change her name and infect another family by cooking for them. Eventually authorities confined her for the last 2 decades of her life because she refused to quit cooking. Couldn't do that today but boy oh boy imagine what a Covid carrier will get from friends and family.

I'm in the Ebola zone and we've been living under Covid like rules for a decade and have very little Covid. Masks are not respected but handshaking has been non-existent for many years and hand washing stations are outside nearly every business. We had a stretch of Ebola outbreaks three years straight and the Canadians were talking about leaving their lab here permanently. Instead we modified contacts and the same that prevent Ebola deal with most of Covid as well. No Ebola for 6 years now and most of our small number of cases of Covid can be directly linked to UN personnel.

Hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated but no deaths have been positively attributed to the vaccines, a few cases suspected and are being heavily investigated but none yet proven. On the other side, nearly 5 million have died already of Covid globally.

 

Its not a theory. Commonly asymptomatic covid response is well established.

Additionally, every vaccine ever made has a mortality rate ...except now the covid vaccine. The fact that every 'covid vaccine related' death is still 'under investigation' is cause to Fing worry.

 

Over 3 million die per year.

If some 80-year-olds die in convalescent homes at a 30% higher rate than normal, how traumatic to society do you really think that will be?