Vaccine's protection against infection may wane in just months

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by kazenatsu, Oct 8, 2021.

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  1. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Vaccine's protection against infection may wane in just months

    Maybe. It is perhaps more likely that delta, which has replaced the original strain, is mor
    The real problem is that flu viruses mutate so we continue vaccinating people for last year's strain. Common sense.
     
  2. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Do you believe kids should get their childhood immunizations? Even though some die but a huge percentage don't? So, they are as well experimental according to your logic. As far as experimental therapies, most drugs are regardless of the time it takes to get them approved. People still have adverse reactions to the most well experimented drugs around. But, let me be clear. I'm not for immunizing kids from Covid19 or the variances as well. However, if parents want to give them the vaccine as they do with the flu, that's there liberty to do so. For you to cause fear of this method of protecting people from a disease that has no cure, that is really committing homicide. What is your position to be able to talk people out of getting the vaccine? There would be millions of people in the U.S. dead by now if it weren't for the vaccines. Not just from the disease itself. People would be dying from suicide, starvation and other reasons due to the social tyrants abusing this opportunity to create a Marxist state. Try looking at the big picture.
     
  3. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    This is very new in the fight against viruses. Time will tell how successful it is. I would say, the flu attacks everyone no matter how young or old. Covid19 mainly attacked the elderly and those with certain co-morbidities. Even the variances don't drastically hurt the children. I also noticed a news flash that says there is a cure for breast cancer coming very soon. I wonder if it has anything to do with this same kind of therapy the Covid19 vaccines do. This could end up to be a miracle in the long run for humanity.
    The Spanish Flu was actually very deadly. Killed millions, more than Covid19 has worldwide. Even with mask wearing. Of course, the government had to keep a lot of the spread of the Spanish Flu from being known by the public because of WW1 and the need for recruits for the military.
     
  4. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is highly unethical to give children an unapproved experimental gene therapy especially when they are the demographic that least needs anything for Covid..
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The alleged vaccines are need not even very good for stopping spikes. Ireland is 91% vaccinated and they’re having an outbreak.
     
  6. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Agreed! The counter to this is that they can still spread the disease to those who may get sick and die. To that, the same logic and reasoning would conclude that children should never be around grand or great-grandparents and anyone with co-morbidities including their parents, siblings and extended family members, neighbors or carnivals, etc. They all should be born and shoved into a community of only children until they are 18.
     
  7. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Just like the flu, there will always be outbreaks of Covid19 from now on. We can't be stopping life or drastically changing it for a few. As time goes on, this virus will mutate and basically fall apart and be harmless as most Covid viruses are, like the common cold. The infection rate of fully vaccinated people in my county is 20%. But, hospitalizations and death is almost 0. No need to cause panic anymore. Just get vaccinated unless you have already had Covid19 and have the antibodies.
     
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So can the vaccinated so being vaccinated will not stop the spread.
     
  9. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are about 11 or so flu viruses and 4 are Corona viruses. The gamble every year is to combine vaccines that they think might be the prevalent flu for the year. Usually about 3. They sometimes get it wrong.

    This is not a vaccine, vaccines are dead or mild versions of the virus and provide much better protection than this gene therapy that tricks your cells to create one of the 4 proteins (1 of three spikes) leaving the others untouched. This therapy has also never passed clinical testing before and both methods used have possible long term downsides including cancer and ADE. The upside is whenever you get government buy in the profits are astronomical.
     
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe it's totally disingenuous to compare this vaccine as if it were like ordinary immunizations. There are numerous reasons for that, and this subject has already been expressed to death in other parts of this forum.

    Also demonstrates the slippery slope issue, where if we accept giving up freedoms in one area it can be difficult to stop that from spreading into other much more questionable areas. A precedent has already been set, and the public perception of 'normal' incrementally changes over time, like boiling a live crab slowly in an open pot before it realizes what is happening. "If we already do this, and have accepted it as totally normal, why not this too?" type of logic. The problem is when that logic gets repeatedly reiterated multiple times. Then you can get something that is absurd, compared with the original starting point.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    CDC pointed out that COVID protection from natural or vaccination reduces over time, in fact in the range of 6 months. They pointed out that vaccination IS more prophylactic and that those who have been exposed enough to suspect they have some protection will be better off having been vaccinated.

    They said that before the delta strain came along.
    Yes, this is a serious problem.

    What we humans have done is to allow COVID to spread across billions of people.

    That is a STUPENDOUS test bed in which new strains of this SARS can mutate.

    We are better off if we can get this virus reasonably suppressed - both here and abroad. As with delta (and the several other major strains) wherever the mutation takes place, the result will come here to visit us.

    So far, we're just freaking lucky that delta and others aren't more lethal.


    Frankly, we need to see this COVID as a dry run - a test case. There are tens of thousands of SARS variants. There are repositories of MERS, Ebola, and others. There are plenty of places where new viruses can cross into the human population. And, it's not been that long since the last SARS, MERS, Ebola, outbreaks.

    One big question is what are we doing to prepare for the next one?

    Are we ready to defend the USA?

    Or, are we developing excuses for surrender?
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    State exactly what you are objecting to here. Is it the length of the testing period? Or, what??
    Every one of our safety precautions gets evaluated as we go.

    I know of NO other case where someone has said that we can't save lives, because it would mean that we might save more lives in the future.

    And, no. This is NOT about "freedom". This is about what we have in the way of tools for combatting this pandemic.
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="WillReadmore, post: 1073039034, member: 64140"
    They said that before the delta strain came along.[/quote]

    And then the delta strain arrived.

    Allowed? I would say the virus looks like it is in charge to me. Our response to it has been ineffective.

    No doubt about that.

    They are no more lethal than endemic seasonal flu. They are more infectious so more people are infected. The death rate is about the same.
    It is pretty hard to have a test case for unknown antigens that might arrive in the future. We have never conquered a corona virus. All of them are still with us. Why would this one be any different. In fact it is stronger than the others.

    Well we do vaccinate people for last year's strain of the flu. That doesn't seem to be very effective. I don't know what we can do to be prepared. Luckily I'm not the person responsible for figuring it out. Perhaps ending every trace of gain of function research could help.

    I think we could defend against the unknown if it weren't an unknown. As it is I think we are more likely to be victims of future pandemics.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
  14. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    We are all going to get this virus or live like hermits or prisoners the rest of our lives. Natural immunity is our only hope of breaking this cycle. Live life and protect your vulnerable. I've tested positive for antibodies 7 times over 15 months since getting covid. My elderly parents get the vax and self isolate. My only worry about covid is protecting my parents. The rest of my family, my brother's family, and my military son's family including my 2 year old granddaughter have all had covid.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
  15. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    I went to the dermatologist last week and in the conversation about Covid she told me that after 6 months the Pfizer vaccine is no longer working. Casts the booster shot in a whole new light.
     
  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I would agree that eventually everyone will contract covid. I don't think we will ever eliminate it since we haven't eliminated any of the other corona viruses. Natural immunity will certainly reduce the severity of symptoms or even prevent symptoms entirely but it won't put the virus in the rear view mirror.
     
    Heartburn likes this.
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, 2020 and 2021 are the test case. What we are doing right now is our test of what will happen with the next pandemic. It's a measure of what we will do and how we will be prepared.

    I would rate our test case as being pretty darn pathetic. We kicked it off by eliminating our federal level pandemic planning group. We killed our sources of masks TWICE. We left our first responders with NO protection, and watched them die. We refused to wear masks. We trash canned the OSHA and CDC recommendations for safety in corporate factories considered necessary. We did not address travel either internationally or within the USA. We strongly resisted all the well known methods of slowing disease by means of personal behavior - masks, social distancing, getting vaccinated. We had a president who refused to back any of these measures, and who in fact promoted homeopathic solutions that had no scientific backing. We directly attacked international cooperation in multiple ways. We used the source of this virus for purely political purposes, making it essentially impossible to work with China in the region where many thousands of SARS variants present a continuing threat. We assaulted ALL our institutions of science based medicine.

    And, today what we find is large numbers of Americans strongly refusing to improve on every last one of these defenses.

    We were wildly lucky that COVID wasn't more deadly, because we just plain surrendered. And, so far it looks like the next time out, THAT is what we will demand to do then, too.

    ---

    As for flu, our vaccines are a cocktail designed to help against a number of strains of flu that are projected to be prevalent during the coming year. That cocktail is based on evidence from here and around the world and take into account patterns of travel and past experience.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we were lucky. The Chinese chose a fairly painless virus to engineer into covid. They could have chosen a truly deadly one. In that sense we were lucky. We should not deal with the Chinese at all. They are are waging a cold war against the U.S. and we we are supporting them. It boggles the mind.

    What we did was not effective. Doing more of the same makes no sense at all. I don't agree with much of what you said, sorry. Government did way more harm than good and continues to do so. The politicians learned the apparent pleasure of authoritarianism and we will have a devil of a time getting them to abandon it. I would support banning government from messing with pandemics. Let the medical community handle it. We should shut down the NIH and move the CDC to the private sector. The 10th amendment was more prescient than the founders could have imagined.

    We need to find a way to stop the weaponization of viruses and bacteria everywhere it exists on the planet.

    They aren't very effective either. After decades of trying to eliminate flu, we should accept defeat and do something more useful.
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This is an unsubstantiated charge of collusion. You CLAIM to support science. However, you do NOT follow your own guideline.
    Dude - we know what tools we have. The problem is that we REFUSED TO USE THEM.

    I do NOT care WHY we didn't use them. You hated being told to use them. That's just plain JUVENILE as an excuse. Sensible people would have used them without there having to be people to tell them to do so.

    We have the best science based medicine in the world and all we could manage to do was to whine, whine, whine when the answer involved doing stuff so simple as wearing a MASK!!
    This is assuming facts not in evidence, obviously.

    And, the only RATIONAL way forward is to work more closely with our partners in science at Wuhan. They are the experts.

    Instead, we use slurs, ad hom, and unsubstantiated accusations to make it HARDER to do what is best for the USA!!! This is just one of the profoundly IGNORANT approaches we've taken.
    ??

    There are many diseases we haven't conquered, but HAVE made progress in decreasing suffering and increasing survival.

    I really do not understand this idea that if we don't conquer it by THIS YEAR then we should surrender.
     
  20. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Conquer it?? We have to learn to live with it.
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    True - most medical scientists do seem to believe that the opportunity for eliminating this disease has passed.

    But, that does not mean we have to surrender.

    There are lots of diseases that we can not eliminate, yet we do take continuing action to reduce their impact.

    I don't accept the "ok, let's just surrender" idea.

    Beyond that, we need to be better prepared for the next pandemic. COVID was certainly not the first. And, it absolutely will not be the last. The policies and measures we consider today ARE our prep work.
     
  22. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Accepting that it is fact and here to stay is not surrendering.
     
  23. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I'd get too excited about the technology just yet.
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Opposing medical recommendations for fighting the pandemic is what one does when one wants the USA to surrender.
     
  25. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    From time to time someone has to say--- WHUT???
     

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