Octopuses, crabs, lobsters recognised as "sentient beings" in UK... but not fetuses

Octopuses, crabs, and lobsters will be recognized as 'sentient beings' in UK after a review concluded they feel pain and distress

A review of 300 studies concluded there is strong evidence some invertebrates are sentient.
The UK government is updating an animal welfare law to includes octopuses, crabs, and lobsters.
The review defined sentience as "the capacity to have feelings, such as feelings of pain, pleasure, hunger, thirst, warmth, joy, comfort and excitement."

Octopuses, crabs, and lobsters will be recognized as sentient beings under UK animal welfare laws after a review concluded there is strong evidence they are capable of feelings.

"I'm pleased to see the government implementing a central recommendation of my team's report," said Jonathan Birch, a professor at LSE who works on the Foundations of Animal Sentience Project​

Lobsters, octopus and crabs recognised as sentient beings - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Octopuses and lobsters have feelings – include them in sentience bill, urge MPs | Animals | The Guardian
This was just announced 2 days ago, November 19, 2021
Octopuses, Crabs, Lobsters Recognized As 'Sentient Beings' in UK (businessinsider.com)

Question: If crabs and lobsters are recognised as "sentient beings", shouldn't human fetuses be too??

Why are those on the Progressive Left so touchy-feely with zoological creatures, but deny that human fetuses inside a pregnant woman have any humanity or rights?

 

I used to think it was because they valued freedom of choice and body autonomy.

Until the covid vaccine.

Apparently they just love abortion.

...so is it illegal to eat lobster, crab and octopus in the UK now?

 

Yes .. and no .. first have to define "Sentient .. which is more than just pain and distress IMO .. but no need to debate that as this definitionis fine for distinguishing between a dolphin and a Fetus .. as for most of its existence .. the fetus does not feel pain or distress ..

round 22 weeks --- when it does have such capacity - I say the Fetus is at least as important as the Dolphin .. prior to that - not so much.

 

Silly response - cows feel pain .. doubt all creatures who feel pain and distress are off the menu .. could argue that definition of sentient for a tree Tis an unfortunate reality .. but nevertheless all too real .. the fact that we must kill life to survive.

Essential liberty is a different question -- one not related to an entity who can not capacitate pain or distress.

It is however related to my body my choice - which covers more than just reproductive choice. but not to the vaccine .. although the vax is related to my body my choice .. hope you appreciate the precise logic

 

What makes you imagine they're not already, certainly to the point of development where they actually are sentient?

What rights do you think apply to other animals that don't apply to humans as a result of this legislation? If the only restrictions on human abortion was based of Animal Rights law, it would be much, much easier.

 

after 26 weeks one might have a point, but you can't force someone else to lt you use their blood so you can survive

http://www.slate.com/id/2120872/
"a member of President Bush's Council on Bioethics, describes in his book The Ethical Brain, current neurology suggests that a fetus doesn't possess enough neural structure to harbor consciousness until about 26 weeks, when it first seems to react to pain. Before that, the fetal neural structure is about as sophisticated as that of a sea slug and its EEG as flat and unorganized as that of someone brain-dead."

but is it ever ok to force a rape victim to have their rapists baby?

 

DUHH.... Only if they're sentient...

,



Why are those on the right so callous and uncaring about animals?? Don't care if they suffer?

THEY DON'T....no one said a human fetus isn't human...

AGAIN, what TF does animal rights and a fetus having rights have to do with each other? (NOTHING)

One is an animal and one is a human....why do you want to treat humans like animals????

 

No, but they are subject to animal cruelty protections. Their death has to be quick, humane, and relatively painless.

Mostly this is just an official legal recognition that these creatures do possess 'sentience'.

 

FoxHastings, are you willing to concede that fetuses may possess both humanity and sentience?

 

But don't you find it a little odd, or at least inconsistent, that progressive scientists are telling us that a lobster reacts to pain and can feel "distress" but a 24 week fetus can't?

If one didn't know better, they might suspect there is some deep bias underlying these research studies, or at least the interpretation of the results.

 

they are not talking about lobster fetus's

 

No they are not, but an adult lobster is in many ways less mentally advanced that a human fetus. Would you agree with that?

Something tells me that if someone tortured a cat or dog fetus and made a video of it, the authorities would still punish them under animal cruelty laws.

 

not according to the article I posted

fact is, life can start after conception and life can end before the body dies

the body is just a vessel for us during this lifetime

 

I am 100% certain the article you posted is complete BS.

I am somewhat familiar with fetology and gestational development. To suggest a fetus can't feel pain until 26 weeks is ridiculous.
If it had said something like 20 weeks, then I would still vehemently disagree but I wouldn't be calling it "total BS".

But I will save that argument for a different thread discussion.

 

many disagree, so each of us will have to choose for ourselves to risk our life\limbs to have a baby or not

 

Um, no... That will have to be a discussion for another thread.


But if you feel a fetus at 20 weeks is lower on the life hierarchy than the level of a lobster, that is on you.



Mom Who Was Told By Doctors Her Baby Was "Inviable" Celebrates Her Son's First Birthday (redbookmag.com)

This is extremely extremely super rare, but this "fetus" born shortly after 20 weeks gestation did survive.
(Thanks to the life-saving medical intervention of doctors and round-the-clock special care)


You are 20 Weeks and 1 Day Pregnant - FamilyEducation

20 weeks and 3 days pregnant - Baby Fetal Progress, Ultrasound, Nutrition, Tips and Advice | Parentune.com

click here for picture of baby at 20.5 weeks, which was not destined to live long
https://media.self.com/photos/59d3bf8974a834772329a90c/4:3/w_2560,c_limit/Omara-48.jpg

 

Man shares memory of when he was a 20 week old fetus
Babies in the Womb See, Hear, Feel: Man Shares Earliest Memory When He was 20-Week Old Fetus (gospelherald.com)

 

I believe only the potential parent can decide

if there is left over IVF in a petri dish, those are not babies, don't you agree?

 

Show where anyone said a human fetus isn't human.....

And I see, as usual, that you HAD TO CHERRY PICK my post ....is it because you can't address those inconvenient facts ?

 

FreshAir said: ↑
many disagree, so each of us will have to choose for ourselves to risk our life\limbs to have a baby or not

NO, it is pertinent to ALL discussions on abortion

AND

you go on in this post to show the benefits of being able to CHOOSE.

The CHOICE was the woman's.....

 

BS! Most adults have faulty memories...

How about we interview the guy about his early born days abd see if they fit with his parents memories....memories are like farts in the wind..

 

HAHAHAHAHA. Did you read that in The Onion or what?

That is not enough to have rights. If that is the criteria, looots of living things should have rights.

Only one who can have actual memories from that period is his mother.

 

Not to be rude or anything, but I find it very hard to trust the judgement of someone who believes a man who says he has memories from his time in the womb.

Your BS-detector needs an update.

We know very little about that at the moment. But, even if it was proven that a fetus can feel pain even before week 20, it would not change anything in regards to abortion rights. Perhaps one could argue the way of performing should change if that was proven and probably researchers would figure that out, but ability to feel pain is not a qualification for rights. Are you a vegan by any chance? Cattle do feel pain, but most people who are not completely nuts do not think cows and pigs should have rights.

 

That's fine. Maybe you should read this thread: Audrey's story
There is a post down towards the bottom of the first page with many accounts of people claiming to remember, although it is considered very rare.

I personally can remember very clearly from about the age of 2.
Some memories from before then are very vague and fuzzy and I'm not sure if what I am actually remembering is reality, or I seem to have some vague memory but cannot remember exactly in what sequence it happened or how old I was.
I'm even willing to admit babies' brains are probably not really entirely "human" before the age of 1 and a half.
I do vaguely remember being in a crib and before I could talk. And I think I can almost remember my parents trying to teach me to walk, but am not sure.

 

OMGAWD!
YOU: ""I'm even willing to admit babies' brains are probably not really entirely "human" before the age of 1 and a half.""


WHAT TF !!!!

What are you talking about? A human's brain is entirely human ALL the time...

LOLOL, if it's not entirely human is it partially space alien for a while ??


And BTW, what "memories" anyone has is totally irrelevant to a woman's right to bodily autonomy and abortion...