All 3 men guilty of murder in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery

But I don't think what they did up to that point really actually constituted detainment.

 

Yes, but juries, not we, get to decide whether running away is reasonable grounds to suspect burglary. And actually, it's not enough to reasonably believe he had committed burglaries in the past, not under Georgia law: A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.

 

Then you have shut off your brain. Try turning it back on again.

 

Chase because he was running, and then they cut off his path in the middle of the road.

Not quite the same thing as coming close to grab and arrest him.


I think they would have preferred to just keep an eye on him until police came.

Maybe he should have just stuck to walking or jogging.
They were keeping their distance after he refused to talk to them.

But he started running very hard, and he was a fast athletic runner, and they got tired of it and probably thought at this rate he would evade them.

 

"Genuinely believed" is a subjective standard. The Georgi citizens' arrest law required that they reasonably believe he was committing a felony right then and there. They can't just say "we actually believe he was the guy who burglarized my house last week." If that's what they think, and all that they think, they can follow him and alert police, but not detain him under Georgia law as it existed at the time.

 

That would have been a n assumption on their part. Thinking something does not make it a fact.

They approached him with a vigilante attitude.............so not sure it would have mattered.

 

They did come close to him. They did try to physically prevent him from escaping, which English speaking people can tell you is an arrest. Consult someone who speaks English. It isn't difficult. Do you need a reference?

 

They told him to stop or they would blow his head off. They rammed him with their car and blocked his path.

 

Can we stop with the personal insults before the mods close the thread?

 

Oh, it's okay. I don't mind those insults too much.

It almost feels like playing softball in this thread, but I'm getting fatigued from all the same soft balls being thrown.

 

Not with me, and it's against the rules.

 

It will stop being "personal" when the people involved stop trying to justify murder.

 

You can watch the below video. As Arbery runs toward the McMichael's truck, Travis McMichael is standing in the road to the left of the truck with the shotgun. He is standing about 6 feet to the left of the truck (0:35 in video). Arbery appears to try to avoid him by running around the right side of the truck (0:37 in video). While Arbery ran around the right side of the truck, McMichael moved to the right, closing in on the front of the truck in anticipation of Arbery coming around the front of the truck (0:40 in video). One second later, the first shot is fired almost instantly as Arbery came to the front of the truck (0:41 in video). So yeah, the shotgun was pointed at him. Clearly, not only was the shotgun pointed at him, but Travis McMichael had moved into position to get even closer to him. If your fear is that a suspect may take your shotgun away from you, do you move closer to him with that shotgun?

Put yourself in Arbery's place. You don't know these guys. You don't know why they're trying to stop you. They have guns. One of them has used a truck to try to force you to stop. You try to run around a man with a shotgun standing in the road, trying to use a car to create some separation, but he closes distance on you as you try to do that. You come around the front of that truck, and there he is about arm's distance away pointing a shotgun at you. Now you've got a choice, and you know you can't outrun trucks and you can't outrun bullets.

 

Kaz doesn't care about the facts of the case. I've tried to get him to. He refuses.

 

He is obviously disagreeing with you that the act constituted murder in the first place. He is allowed to do that. We are not allowed to insult him for his belief. We just aren't.

 

If only you would try talking about the facts of the case instead of attacking people for encouraging you to do so.

 

It is an "iffy" situation. He was running towards the truck then. So they were getting into position.

Moving around the truck isn't really the same thing as moving close towards the suspect in more open space.

He seems to have been using the truck like an obstacle, so they had to get into the right position, and that could mean having to move closer, but only around the perimeter of the truck.

 

He has asked us to ignore all of the facts of the case and let him make up new ones. He has LITERALLY argued that we should outright ignore what the men have said about their own motives and accept his rewrite instead. That's insane.

 

I am willing to let him vent off steam in this case if it is helpful.

I think it makes him look more bad than it does me though.

 

Motives are not quite the same as actions.
If actions could foreseeably in any way have a legal justification, then I believe the motive need not necessarily really be relevant.

Otherwise we are turning laws into something that amounts to a "thought crime". Or punishing people for future crimes that never actually got committed.

 

Damn! Well mob rule won. Good luck to them on their appeal.

 

Your have one version of said "motives," and the men in question say their motives were different. Why is your version of their motives superior to their version of their own motives?

 

I'm asking you to look at their physical actions, not "plans" or motives.


Arbery knew they were trying to follow them.
Did he have reason to believe they were going to try to arrest him? Didn't he have a mobile phone? Why didn't he attempt to call police? Unless that's exactly what he was trying to avoid.

 

Unquestionably, Arbery saw a way to keep running using the truck to create some separation from Travis McMichael who was in the road. He tried to avoid him! If you look at where Travis was at 0:35 in the video and where he is at 0:41 when he fired the first shot, you can see for yourself that Travis McMichael used those few seconds to move across the road, closing distance on the spot he expected Arbery to be when he rounded the truck. He moved closer! Arbery was shot within 1 second of rounding the front of that truck. So who created this situation?

Look for yourself. I used the Pause button to create that timeline. So can you.

 

I can see this situation from both their perspectives.

But from their perspective he was running towards and getting close to the truck - their "home base".

It seems like a tragedy of circumstance.

They both would have seen the other as taking a provocative antagonistic stance.

Perhaps by cornering him up against and around the perimeter of the truck, that's where a bad (but understandable) mistake was made.

Yes, Arbery's path was obstructed by a human being, but that path seems to have unfortunately been right up against the truck.