Is Neo[Atheism] a Rational Religion?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Kokomojojo, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. The redhead in that video is both hot and has an amazing voice.
     
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  2. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    His google is broken though, thats why he doesnt understand.

    Its also why we will never see any validation of his claims:
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  3. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    You made claims and when I called you on your contradictions and empty claims you failed to back them up, and then pretended the onus was on me to clear up your nonsense instead of on you to prove your claims.

    And now, you are yet again running into the same brick wall of self-contradiction with Swensson. He just (again) posted what he means by atheism and you (again) ignored it and instead pretended he didn't share your definition of agnosticism.

    Atheism as he defined it, meaning lack of belief in God(s) is completely compatible with agnosticism as you define it (neither believing gods exist or believing they don't exist). The two are only mutually exclusive if atheism is taken to mean more than a lack of belief God(s) exist, and also a positive belief that God(s) don't exist.

    This again goes to your daft claim that lack of belief God(s) exist is the same as belief God(s) don't exist, and your blatant contradiction between that claim abd your definition of agnosticism and claim to be one.

    You thumped your chest and whined and posted silly memes when this was pointed out to you. You never actually addressed or explained it. Because you know it is nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  4. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    I backed everything up, you fail to understand grammar and logic, sorry
    Hell apparently you cant even understand what you read, or dont bother to read contradictory positions at all, since one reference is DIRECT FROM GRAMMARLY

    WTF more do you want?

    I just gave you the proofs and you are in denial, you cant explain your claims while unjustifiably throwing contrary claims out, not because they are incorrect but because it does not fit your 'neoatheist' political agenda.

    Not real difficult for anyone to figure out who has sufficient grammar and logic skills

    Not only do I make great efforts to explain my claims in great detail I post citations in support of them.

    Having ANY level of theist or agnostic belief CONTRADICTS the logic of agnostic position. Hence invalid. Sorry

    agnosticism means neither believing in nor disbelieving
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  5. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Typo correction:

    Having ANY level of theist or agnostic atheist belief CONTRADICTS the logic of agnostic position. Hence invalid. Sorry

    and a friendly reminder, only the living qualify to be compared with choices made the living.

    One must be alive to choose to be a theist, one must be alive to choose to be an agnostic, therefore the 'only' compatible 'version' of atheist when comparing to theist and agnostic also requires one who is alive to make a conscious choice, the ongoing act of believing no G/god(s) exist.

    There is no such thing as an atheist gene, sorry.

    Damn that turkey smells good!
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  6. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    You just again did what you always do. Nobody called you out on your defining "agnostic". That isn't your contradiction. You can blah blah blah until you are blue in the face about that. That isnt what you were asked to explain or prove, and if you actually read what others wrote you would know it.

    And again you skip to talking about atheist belief, when Swensson and Flew both defined atheism as lack of belief. You have again made zero effort to show why you think the one means the other, other than to flatly claim so, while also contradicting that in your definition of agnostic and claim to be one.

    And you also carry on saying "choose to believe" without ever having established that there is such a choice made by everyone, other than to mock the question of if there is, even in the face of evidence of people telling you they made no such choice.

    This is not adequate ground for you to credibly thump your chest and claim you proved anything.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  7. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Then again, whether or not one believes or chooses to believe in God, neither determines his existence nor absence. I mean we are not born into his lap for goodness sakes, at least not that anyone can perceive. Therefore Agnostic is a perfectly logical position, with Atheist near to it. Which then leaves the proof to the Theist or to God himself to establish.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  8. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    which has nothing to do with agnostic, yet you people continue to try and beat a square peg in a round hole LMAO :roll::roflol:
    Atheist is a 'choice'. How difficult is that LOL
    True

    False, its not even in the same universe.
    True AND to the atheists that claim God does not exist.
     
  9. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    It is your contradiction to explain, not mine or anybody else's. In one breath you claim (and make no effort to prove) that lack of belief God exists is the same as belief God does not exist, which logically means you must either believe God exists or believe God does not exist, and then in the next breath you purport to be an Agnostic, who believes neither.

    It is an obvious contradiction you refuse to explain.

    There is no claim by me there. The claim is yours. You claimed we choose to believe in God or not. I said I did not make any such choice. I then in good faith tried to explore the issue, and considered that perhaps some people DO make such a choice and others don't. You refused to consider anything but your initial claim and pretended the claim was mine and not yours. Nobody fell for it.

    Again, maybe you really do have the amazing powers of self delusion to make yourself believe you are an elephant if you wanted to. Or maybe you don't and you are playing your games. All I know for sure is that I don't have that power. I am compelled to believe I am not an elephant. I make no such choice in the matter.

    Belief is not voting. Belief is not choosing. Belief is not proclaiming. Belief is belief. I think you keep smuggling in these other terms because you know you are confused and you need room to squirm.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  10. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    I cant imagine how you can come up with such ludicrous nonsense that I am obligated to prove your ****ing claim.
    you claim its a contradiction, not me!

    please stop trying to illegitimately push your failure to honor YOUR burden of proof on to me.

    Prove your claim that what I said is in fact a contradiction, or man up, grow a pair, and concede the ****ing point already.

    These kinds of posts that you make prove to the whole world you lack the qualifications to argue these points. Sorry.

    you claimed what I said is a contradiction, now you are back to falsifying the argument. How ****ing low down lame is that!

    Its so obvious but you cant explain it LMAO

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  11. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Again, they have not disagreed with you about agnostic, yet you keep harping on that. Everybody here understands what you mean when you say agnostic. YOU refuse to acknowledge what they mean by atheist, or to explain why you think lack of belief there is a God is the same as belief there is no God. That is what keeps you talking passed one another, and also what keeps you talking passed everyone else.

    You've not proved that. And my personal experience shows me that not for everyone it isn't, if it is for anyone, which is possible I suppose, but I doubt.

    This I agree with, but only for "atheists" who do make that claim.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  12. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    As a Christian, I find Atheists and Agnostics to be refreshing in the sense that they remain near to their original endowments in intellect and higher natures of conscience and love, with which they were born. Can anything be more orthodox than this? That they are not baked into the dogma of this or that of the forty thousand different Christian denominations which have come down thru the ages, is a wonder. Ironically it makes them nearer to God in a sense than the wormwood of the body of Christianity, which like a gigantic fruitless tree, is the very source of Atheist and Agnostic rejection of the matter. Who can blame them? For all of Christianity's quoting of scripture, posing and ordinances, what does it beget more than crustiness and wrote? When Jesus went to a fig tree for a fig to eat, and it had none on it, he cursed the tree and it withered. How different are Atheists and Agnostics in perception of a fruitless tree than was the very author of Christianity, Jesus. The tree of most of Christianity is fruitless. And they, Agnostics and Atheists, know it. That's why I find them so refreshing. So I say, God bless Atheists and Agnostics for towing and holding the line. May the true and living God lend you rest, understanding, and peace, to your hearts minds and souls for your fidelity to that to which you have long clung, guarded and managed. You were never forgotten, banished, cast off or consigned to despair in truth except by those who have no place in truth.
     
  13. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    NO!
    I fully admit agnostic is a religion, it is a core belief and from that hub forms my view of the world.

    atheists of the NEO type on the other hand are deluded to believe they lack that to which they claim if you can follow that :winner:
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  14. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    You are claiming both X and !X when you claim both of the above. That is a contradiction. This has been shown to you many times, and not only by myself.
    You say you must believe X or Y, and then you claim to believe neither. A colossal contradiction.

    You are the one desperately trying to move burdens of proof.

    You claim atheism is a choice, and then demand I prove otherwise.
    You claim one must believe X or Y, and that you believe neither, and then demand I prove you are contradicting yourself.
    You then thump your chest.
    Bravo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  15. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Talk to the hand this has all been explained to you countless times mega pages ago and you simply fail to comprehend the explanations which is easy to see since you fail and continue to fail to provide an on point rebuttal. Sorry

    You are running around in circles and consequently spamming the thread with the same nonsense that was addressed and debunked countless times. Im sure both myself and other would appreciate you refrain from constantly spamming the thread.
     
  16. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    What makes you think that?

    It is the definitions that determine what is sufficient to identify a theist/atheist, and there is a reason one is phrased positively and one is phrased negatively. The theist definition includes only the positive statement "believe God exists", whereas the atheist definition as we have agreed on it includes the negative "not believe God exists" (in stark contrast to "believe God does note exist"). Your desire to make the two mirror images of each other is simply not reflected in the definitions.

    No, I agree that agnostics take neither side between belief one way or belief another, I just disagree that either of those sides would be identified as atheism.
     
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  17. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    You insist on your definitions of "Atheist" and "Agnostic" and refuse to address others who use those words differently based on how they use them, instead pretending these other people mean something they clearly don't, causing confusion for yourself that everyone else can see through.

    You claim atheism is a choice, and demand we prove otherwise, pretending the burden of proof isn't on you.

    You claim one must believe X or Y, and also state that you believe neither, and then demand we prove you are contradicting yourself.

    You try to distract by explaining simple obvious things not in question.

    Then you proclaim you proved everything, maybe trying to convince yourself that you did.

    Then you thump your chest and talk down to everyone else.

    Bravo sir. Bravo.
     
  18. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    false, it's the substance of the condition that creates the definition, and like or not, thiests do not believe God does not exist.

    It's not possible to create a plausible argument that someone who is dead that lacks belief is equivalent to someone who is alive and believes God does no exist, sorry

    Just because the definition doesn't say that a theist is not a house doesn't mean that a theist might be a house or that a house can somehow apply to a theist that's just over the top ludicrous nonsense!
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  19. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Nobody said they are equivalent. They just share one simple thing. They all don't believe in Gods.

    You are actually a home to many microorganisms. You are their house.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  20. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    I already acknowledged your concession no use beating a dead horse.
     
  21. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    you disregard pertinent foundations and mislabel them, they are simple to anyone who understands it.
     
  22. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    something a dead man can accomplish cant be used to negate something that requires a living person to accomplish, sorry.
     
  23. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    I proved it and y0ou conceded, and I accepted, no use conceding 1000 more times with nonresponsive blathering.
     
  24. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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  25. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Nobody said otherwise.
     

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