2 trials, 1 theme: White men taking law into their own hands

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Galileo, Nov 25, 2021.

  1. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,523
    Likes Received:
    18,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your title is dishonest. Kyle didn't "take the law into his own hands" he obeyed the law as was proven in a court of law.

    The only reason he shot anybody was because they took the law into their own hands. He had to defend himself against vigilantes.

    The McMichaels weren't.

    You are operating completely without facts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,523
    Likes Received:
    18,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They create their own imaginary narrative completely out of whole cloth.

    They're saying Kyle was a vigilante no the riots were made up of vigilantes that's what a riot is. It was vigilantes that threatens Kyle and that he had no choice to shoot.

    They're all 100% for vigilantism as long as it's the right kind. But if you dare to defend yourself against these bloodthirsty murderous vigilantes you should be lynched and that's what they were trying to do with Kyle.
     
  3. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,697
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    First of all, I'm really not arguing the case--the court did that, and it's over. I'm only saying that vigilantism is something we need to be very careful with. It naturally leads us to places we wish we hadn't gone.

    What matters is why he went there. And I absolutely don't see his weapon as a fire extinguisher. Maybe that's the big difference in our opinions here, but I see the weapon as a flamethrower instead. In this case, it obviously did nothing but stir up anger. If he'd stayed away, he'd have no reason to worry about self-defense. IMO, his armed presence provoked the situation.

    Obviously, he did not think this through, nor did he have an understanding of how he might make things worse. This is my point about vigilantism--that people take on this Hollywood kind of notion about heroic behaviors, yet lack the experience to see it all through to the end in a realistic sort of way.

    I appreciate your nitpicking, and think it's something that we should discuss. I guess that by now you know I'm not going to promote or praise vigilante action. But neither am I going to say it should be eliminated. As far as where self-defense crosses the line, I think it really depends on the situation. IMO, if you knowingly put yourself in a situation where self-defense becomes necessary, then the line has been crossed.
     
  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,918
    Likes Received:
    21,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Maybe you misunderstood. Kyle was carrying a rifle, a medbag and a real literal fire extinguisher when the arsonist began chasing him. Video of him carrying these items to the car lot where he was attacked was shown at the trial. He wasn't metaphorically putting out fires, he was literally on his way to put out vehicles fires that were possibly started by the arsonist who attacked him when he got there.

    Would you say that putting out arson fires is vigilanteism?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
    Well Bonded likes this.
  5. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,050
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Simple, lawful self defense, it was clear to anyone it could be a dangerous area to work in, as such that was a common sense thing to do.
     
  6. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,050
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But they are not obligated to protect anyone's property.
     
  7. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,050
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In many parts of the country they don't.
     
  8. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    24,711
    Likes Received:
    3,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Interesting; where I live they do help people in distress or at least from what I've witnessed before.
     
  9. Sage3030

    Sage3030 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Messages:
    5,521
    Likes Received:
    2,941
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  10. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    28,143
    Likes Received:
    19,388
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Denying ones ability to carry in public also comes with problems. While you and I enjoy the luxury of having this discussion from safety, criminals prefer unarmed victims. Police officers are the first to see crime scenes and are overwhelmingly in favor of armed citizens.
     
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They may and probably will but are not obligated by law to do such.
     
  12. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,252
    Likes Received:
    6,638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They are in Texas.
     
  13. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Messages:
    10,432
    Likes Received:
    4,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  14. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,252
    Likes Received:
    6,638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  15. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,697
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I did misunderstand that. Sorry. But the analogy still stands IMO.
     
  16. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,252
    Likes Received:
    6,638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I spent a year in Iraq as a civilian supporting over a thousand American civilian contract firefighters. The left always called us "mercenaries". Can you imagine? "Mercenary" firefighters?
     
  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,918
    Likes Received:
    21,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Is the analogy meant to suggest that you believe the arsonist attacked Kyle not because Kyle had a fire extinguisher, but because Kyle had a rifle?
     
    SiNNiK likes this.
  18. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,918
    Likes Received:
    21,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I was looking to get into that many years ago. I recall they required an ARFF cert that I didn't have.

    Wasn't it a 'mercenary' company (like Blackwater or etc) that employed them? I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with being a mercenary. Mercs can still choose to take on 'good' or 'bad' jobs. The bonus to merc work (aside from the money ofc) is unlike professional military, I understand one can usually refuse immoral orders and instead quit and go home. Granted, doing so probably makes one 'blacklisted' from that profession, but thats a lot better than a dishonorable discharge or a military prison imo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  19. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,252
    Likes Received:
    6,638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I spent two years in Iraq as a civilian contractor. My first year was training the NEW Iraqi Army. It was an amazing time. I had trained Americans in Basic long before and it was night and day. Arab recruits don't give a damn about country or patriotism. Its all all about religion, religion and such.
     
    modernpaladin likes this.
  20. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2014
    Messages:
    13,361
    Likes Received:
    11,534
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Liberals. Put up or shut up. Please attempt to repeal the 2nd Amendment. And do this before the next midterm elections.
     
  21. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,252
    Likes Received:
    6,638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Liberals declared "sanctuary cities" where federal immigration laws are simply ignored. Texas is now a "2d amendment sanctuary STATE"... As of 1 September we have "Constitutional Carry" which is open or concealed carry... either one... for any legal gun owner. And silencers made in Texas are exempt from federal gun laws. TEXAS ROCKS!
     
  22. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2014
    Messages:
    13,361
    Likes Received:
    11,534
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Likewise here in WV other than with respect to suppressors. The liberals said there would be wild west shoot outs and blood running in the streets when Constitutional carry was passed but crime went down.
     
    AARguy likes this.
  23. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2014
    Messages:
    13,361
    Likes Received:
    11,534
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When the police will not enforce the law there is no law.

    Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
     
  24. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Messages:
    15,971
    Likes Received:
    7,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No matter how one may feel about this topic, I don't know how they can't find AARguy's comment hilarious. If merely jogging down the street, was cause for enough suspicion for these men to chase after Arbery, to make a "citizens' arrest," just imagine what the reaction would be to his running down their street, with a GUN!

    Yeah, that might have made Arbery safer-- as long as he was wearing a bullet proof vest, and the gun he carried, was an Uzi (machine gun)!

    Do they also make bullet proof pants, and helmets?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  25. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He wasn’t ‘just running down the street’. He was running after seeing someone call on a phone about him.
     

Share This Page