The New Climate Reality

AGW is all about how fast its happening. The rate of change is what's costing in both economies and lives. Were the changes taking place over 25,000 years we probably wouldn't even notice. Human beings over several hundred generations would have adapted/moved naturally.
The rest of your post is just misuse of science designed to mislead.

 

What 'cost' in economy and lives?

The rest of my post is irrefutable fact, which is why you dodged.

Ice Coverage has reduced over 18,000 years because we transisted from glacial advance to interglacial. Do you prefer a mile of ice over Chicago? Why does your 'present day' picture use "August" rather than something more mid year? It's a rhetorical question, we both know the answer. And you accuse me of being 'misleading'? Looks like we have a black kettle calling someone else black.
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You will have less confusing discussions if you use the proper terminology.

 

First, who is "we", and second what does "real terms mean" if not empirical evidence that you haven't produced? And third, qualitatively, what difference do you believe you see?

 

Empirical Facts Within Sound Theories Produce Accurate Predictions; whereas junkscience is falsified by reality.

For Example: Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past.

—The London Independent, March 20th, 2000.

Storm Arwen traps customers in Britain’s highest pub for third night.

—The London Independent, today.

Same Fools pushing the same fake news. Only fools are fooled by these fools.

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Is this a serious question?

Elephants have two ears is an irrefutable fact, its just as irrelevant as the irrefutable fact you post above. It has nothing to do with current climate change and you have presented any evidence that it does. Its just some copy and paste science you think might confuse the issue.

 

Nope. You use terminology to overcomplicate the issue and appear wise. But Ice ages have nothing whatsoever to do with our current rapid climate change.

 

I mean obviously global warming means everywhere will get 2.5 degrees warmer and we will all have healthy tans.
Its hard to imagine anyone intelligent swallowing your tripe.

 

We is the scientific community and those already seeing land lost and climate changing.
In real terms means in the immediate sense of seeing change as compared to discussing 41,000 year cycles caused by the Milankovitch effect etc.

 

Demonstrate ANY land lost to climate change (since 187. Any. I double dog dare you. And then get back to us on the BS you just posted.

 

It only seems complicated to you because you have not taken the time to learn it.

 

Do you have a serious answer? Do you have any support for your assertion?

That's not an argument that the facts I presented are false, that is an acknowledgement that they are accurate and a lame attempt to spin out of it.

Fake News. You are claiming that a ridiculous doomsday scenario is in process when the current situation is completely within expectations. You can't possibly believe what you claim if you view the current situation consistently with the natural climate cycles that been occurring for hundreds of millions of years, which is why you are trying so desperately to dismiss the context in which the current situation is occurring.

I also asked you very directly and you didn't answer: Why are you so insistent on chasing this Doomsday fantasy rather than focusing on actual existing environmental harm that requires our immediate attention like:

• Cleaning up the damage from our past atmospheric nuclear bomb tests.
• Properly securing vast quantities of leaking radioactive waste left over from our WWII bomb push
• Cleaning up old abandoned mines that are leaching heavy metals into our groundwater.
• Reducing agricultural runoff that is creating a massive dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico
• Imposing gradually increasing tariffs on 3rd world producers that treat the world like their own personal toilet, like China and coordinating with out Free Nations to do the same.
• Getting the massive piles of plastic out of our oceans and imposing gradually increasing tariffs on the goods of nations that dump plastic into the oceans, ramping the tarifs up until either they start cleaning up after themselves or their goods are priced out of our markets and coordinating with out fellow Liberal Democracies to do the same.
• Removing and cleaning up the thousands of barrels of Agent Orange we left rotting in the jungles of Vietnam.

Why are you fixated on this far fetched doomsday crap at the expense of real serious environmental issues? One can't escape the sense that once again, the concern is feigned and it's yet another pile of crap being pushed on us by extremists with the Left.

Fake News. Where the work of others is used, it is properly set off in quotes and attributed, just as common decency and PF requires.

 

And why in this comparison is the month of August used for current day? Do you understand how much ice Arctic Ice Coverage varies during the 12 month cycle and that August is the lowest point? Does it bother you that your source is either moronic or being deliberately misleading?

Also, what's your point? 18,000 years ago we were at the end of a glacial advance and the start of an interglacial, are you surprised that during the interglacial that ice melts? What the hell did you expect?

"In New York, the ice that covered Manhattan was about 2,000 feet high before it began to melt in about 16,000 BC."

That's 18,000 years ago.

"The ice in the area disappeared around 10,000 BC. The ground in the New York area has since risen by more than 150 ft because of the removal of the enormous weight of the melted ice.[10]"

You find it alarming that NY is no longer locked under 2,000 feet of ice like it was 18,000 years ago?

 

We both gave him the science-based answers, it is a mystery to me when certain people can't understand the obvious placed in front on them and backed by numerous science research on it.

Wikipedia LINK again:

"The Quaternary glaciation, also known as the Pleistocene glaciation, is an alternating series of glacial and interglacial periods during the Quaternary period that began 2.58 Ma (million years ago) and is ongoing.[1][2][3] Although geologists describe the entire time period up to the present as an "ice age", in popular culture the term "ice age" is usually associated with just the most recent glacial period during the Pleistocene or the Pleistocene epoch in general.[4] Since planet Earth still has ice sheets, geologists consider the Quaternary glaciation to be ongoing, with the Earth now experiencing an interglacial period."

red bolding and large size mine

Here are the science papers warmist/alarmists will ignore that backs up the above quote all from the Wikipedia link:

Lorens, L.; Hilgen, F.; Shackelton, N.J.; Laskar, J.; Wilson, D. (2004). "Part III Geological Periods: 21 The Neogene Period". In Gradstein, Felix M.; Ogg, James G.; Smith, Alan G. (eds.). A Geologic Time Scale 2004. Cambridge University Press. p. 412. ISBN 978-0-521-78673-7.


Ehlers, Jürgen; Gibbard, Philip (2011). "Quaternary glaciation". Encyclopedia of Snow, Ice and Glaciers. Encyclopedia of Earth Sciences Series. pp. 873–882. doi:10.1007/978-90-481-2642-2_423. ISBN 978-90-481-2641-5.


Berger, A.; Loutre, M.F. (2000). "CO2 And Astronomical Forcing of the Late Quaternary". Proceedings of the 1st Solar and Space Weather Euroconference, 25-29 September 2000. The Solar Cycle and Terrestrial Climate. 463. ESA Publications Division. p. 155. Bibcode:2000ESASP.463..155B. ISBN 9290926937.


"Glossary of Technical Terms Related to the Ice Age Floods". Ice Age Floods Institute. Retrieved 17 February 2019.

 

Over the last 20,000 years the oceans have risen 400 feet. That's 0.25" a year.

"the latest measurements saying the sea levels are currently rising by 3.6 mm per year.[4]: 62  [5]"

That's 0.14" a year. Who with a brain would be "alarmed" over a current rate of seal level rise that's 44% slower than the 20,000 year rate of rise? See why I told you that you need to understand the bigger picture? Why would anyone with a brain spin a ridiculous doomsday myth out of a current rate of ocean rise that is nearly half as slow as the long term rate? If our interglacial goes another 3,000 years, a reasonable assumption based on the fact that was the length of the one previous, then oceans are going to rise another 35 feet, or within about 2% of where the oceans levels crested in the last interglacial, the Eeiman. See, if you knew the context, you would realize that this interglacial is progressing according to reasonable expectations, but, you want the hair on fire doomsday scenario, and empirical facts do not support that madness.

I'm always a little amazed at the reaction of Doomsday Cultists who want to be right so badly, that they are clearly disappointed when they find out that world is not ending.

If you enjoy the natural world, and you want to know the truth, be observant you yourself can see the ancient shore lines:

Do you see the ancient shorelines?

How about here?
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So chill, if you love the natural world it has a story to tell that's well worth your time. If you just want to run around and shriek "The Sky Is Falling!" and ignore the testimony of world around you, well, it's your life. Do as you please.

 

Fake News. We are within an ice age. How can you reasonably claim that an ice age has nothing to do with the current situation when the current situation is within an ice age? Also, have you noticed that you bring no facts or information to the discussion you just make dismissive comments about the actual facts that others bring?

It can be a real challenge for cultist to realize that they have been indoctrinated but, one giveaway is when they realize that they have no ability to make a fact based case for the position they hold.

If your position flowed as naturally from the data as our does, you would be able to use the plain verified facts of natural history to make your case in a number of independent ways, as we are doing. The reason we can is because our scenario flows naturally from the clear facts of empirical science.

 

I understand it as well as you. it is as I say irrelevant.

 

20,000 years again. its irrelevant.

 

Err..... in an ice age? You do realize that the prefix 'inter' as in inter-glacial (period) means between and not 'in' don't you?

So as the Earth is currently experiencing an inter-glacial climate i.e. a period warm climate phase between ice two ages you might want to pull back on claims about other peoples facts. Because as it stands you've kind of got a whole 'Mathew 7:5' thing going on in your own grasp of the 'facts'.

 

HA HA....,

Really you don't understand there are TWO periods in this ongoing ice age?

Glacial period that ended about 18,000 years ago

Interglacial that is currently ongoing.

But all this is going on in the Quaternary Glacial phase that has been running for about 2.6 million years. For the THIRD time have to post this quote from Wikipedia.

"The Quaternary glaciation, also known as the Pleistocene glaciation, is an alternating series of glacial and interglacial periods during the Quaternary period that began 2.58 Ma (million years ago) and is ongoing.[1][2][3] Although geologists describe the entire time period up to the present as an "ice age", in popular culture the term "ice age" is usually associated with just the most recent glacial period during the Pleistocene or the Pleistocene epoch in general.[4] Since planet Earth still has ice sheets, geologists consider the Quaternary glaciation to be ongoing, with the Earth now experiencing an interglacial period."

 

Really you are unaware of far more rapid sea level increase?


2.1.1.2. Reconstructed global sea-level since the Last Glacial Maximum, 20,000 years ago, based on dated worldwide coral and peat deposits. Adapted from Fairbanks, R.G. 1989. A 17,000 year glacio-eustatic sea- level record: Influence of glacial melting rates on the Younger Dryas event and deep-ocean circulation. Nature 342 : 637–642; Toscano, M.A. and Macintyre, I.G., 2003. Corrected western Atlantic sea-level curve for the last 11,000 years based on calibrated 14 C dates from Acropora

LINK

 

Changes nothing, it's still an inter-glacial (ie. warm compared to the periods bookending it). Using your argument the Earth has been in an 'ice age' since the Huronian. Which for all intents an purposes makes 'Ices Ages' the Earth's permanent climate state never mind all the geologic periods where there have been no ice caps at all.

 

Then why did you post this 18,000 year comparison?

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I will add that all you've done is arbitrarily pick a date in Earths climate history that suits you argument, while neatly excluding any data or event that undermines it. How very 'scientific' of you.

 

It is apparent from your post that you do not, in fact, understand.