Elon Elon Musk is suggesting we should have upper age limit of 70 for public office.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 61falcon, Dec 4, 2021.

  1. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    Age limits are use to keep things simple. It is usually an arbitrary number. We throw out age limits and limits on other measures like income level, blood sugar, height, weight and I am sure people outside those limits can easily argue they are an exception and they may be right.
     
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well it won't happen as I explained in post #3 and #16
     
  3. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Voters control that choice and they make that decision every time they vote.
     
  4. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree. Testing would be ideal but the logistics would be difficult. The test would have to constantly be changed before every election and it would have to be a standardize test where everyone person running for office across the takes the same or equal test. They would have to ensure the content will not be leaked out. I guess they could have each state design their own questions to give it some regional flavor so that may help but there would need to be a non partisan organization over sees all of the test to ensure they are ensure in difficulty and substance. The non partisan part may be the greatest hurdle since everything nowadays has become tribal. There will be tons of complaints with the requirements. Some will complain it is racist. Other will claim subjective bias. It would be a total nightmare.
     
  5. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but that would be like saying the owners or managers of a business control who they hire. I still wouldn't let those employees dictate their compensation, days off, hours, etc...
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  6. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for a very honest response. I am sure a lot of people think this but won't say it.
     
  7. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree. Age, in itself, isn't an indicator or cognitive agility. Of course, there are some concerns about changing times.

    Younger people may not be inclined to want senior citizens in office because they are presumed to be "out of touch" with whatever their generation cares about. We see this with Trump all the time. Every Trump supporter I know personally is over 60 years old and extremely racist and sexist just like him. That's why they like him so much. He hates who they hate.

    With that said, I would not be opposed to implementing period psychological testing for all our elected officials.
     
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  8. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    I know everyone points to cognitive decline etc... but another part of it is being out of touch with your constituents and the world. For example Grassley is running for re-election next year. He will be 89 years old. If re-elected his term will end when he is 95. I can't even begin to fathom and understand the world he grew up in. The challenges he faced back then. What is was like to go to school, get a job, raise a family, back then. His experiences would be totally different then what people experience today. You can argue that the goal is the same and they share the same fundamentals but the complexity is how we deal with the steps along the way. The world is totally different.

    Consider these simple questions.

    1. Would he really understand the challenges and pressures a new graduates faces looking for their first job in this workplace. When was the last time he did this? Think about how much the world and employment has changed since. Graduates not only face competition from others in the local area but the entire world. Technology has made it possible to hire people anywhere. We have programmers all around the world. This is not like replying to a help wanted ad in a newspaper or a sign in a window.
    2. Can he understand the impact of social media on teens. Does he understand the concept of a "FINSTA" accounts and how ridiculous senator Blementhal looked when he tried to question the Facebook CEO about it. Does he understand the bullying kids face online and the pressure to have an online presence. Will he equate cyber bullying to school yard bullying when he was a kid and treat them as the same thing? Does he understand the multitude of apps and the type of risk and dangers they pose?
    3. One of the most challenging and stressful things young adults face is buying their first home. Go on Reddit and read about all of the frustrations. How can his experience of going out and trying to buy his first home possibly relate to the experiences of young adults today?
    4. Does he understand the challenges of raising children in this modern society? What parents are concerned with. How long ago was it when he went into a classroom? When was the last time he struggled with problems with his child's school? What was the level of concern about drugs, guns, social medial, cyber bullying when he sent his children to school?
    5. Can his mind think using modern ideas and solutions. Does he understand technology and how it is integrated into the lives of almost every citizen or is he on the outside looking in. Has he even installed a phone app, can he think in terms of streaming instead of record albums, cloud services instead of filing cabinets, renewables vs fossil fuels? Does his aids and staff have to explain to him every nuance of modern society. Is he bringing a analog brain to a digital age?

    The thing that baffles me is why do people vote for these old people time after time. Why would you elect Pelosi, Feinstein, Sanders, Biden, Trump etc... Is it simply name recognition? You look around the rest of the world and they have young leaders like Trudeau, Macron, Johnson, Morrison, etc.. Why do we elect senior citizens?
     
  9. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    You raise some valid points, but you have to take into consideration that older generations are the people that have wisdom and experience. Just about every company has older Presidents and executive staff and they also have middle-aged and younger staff and those people are usually hired to bring those fresh ideas from their perspective to create a cohesive and fluid responses to provide their products and/or services to their target audience.

    Therefore, when talking about elected officials and whatever generation(s) gaps there may be between them and the most recently eligible voting demographic, we aren't looking at a landscape of knee deep old people without those same resources. They have staff and advisers and experts and a plethora of resources and information at their finger tips. This is why many people were so frustrated with former President Trump. He was notorious for not wanting to read daily briefs, get updates or consider any input from anybody that wasn't his daughter or SIL.

    Also, keep in mind that all the legally registered voters for any election is also made up of people in that same subset of society. If we shifted this tide to electing younger people, we are alienating all the senior citizens that support older candidates. Maybe it would be more reasonable to have the candidate pool that represents the various subsets of voters and let them decide. When we use the two-party system, we are still shucking our responsibility and allowing older white males to make the choices for us.

    And, just as age, in itself, is not an indicator of cognitive agility, youth, in itself, is not an indicator of cognitive agility. Being younger worked very, very well for Kennedy but the reason wasn't his age, per se. It was his likeability. Studies have shown that people generally favor attractive people, taller people and people who give the appearance of success. Americans fell in love with Jackie O and the boys because they were a beautiful and likeable family. That increased after his assassination.

    I'm not discounting any of your points as, I have said, they are valid questions. I am just presenting the idea that we can't start excluding people SOLELY based on age and we can't start including people SOLELY based on age. As voters, we have the right to choose the candiate(s) we want, but we also have the responsibility to choose the candidate that will most effectively align with our ideals. In that regard, anyone qualified and interested deserves the right to have their name on the ballot.
     
  10. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    My issue is the extreme difference in age from the electorate. I gave an example of Boris Johnson as what I consider a younger leader. He is 57 years old. Talk to the younger generation or watch Tik Tok and they will tell you anyone born after 1990 is old. The problem with Grassley, Feinstein, Biden, Pelosi etc... is these politician are at the extreme outer edge of the age curve for the population. Find their ages on the graph below and look to see where their electorate falls. People talk about gaining wisdom as you get older but is that true? Is someone wiser at 89 than they were at 60? Does the liability of being another 29 years more out of touch with the electorate offset the gain in the amount of wisdom gain from age 60 to 89?

    [​IMG]

    I agree that regardless of the age of the politician they have a staff and aids to consult when making decisions. That would be true for any elected official. BUT when you have to consistently explain simple things to a politician because they have never experienced it before the job becomes that much more difficult and time consuming. I am sure Blumenthal's staff briefed him on Facebook, Instagram and what FINSTA accounts were but obviously he has never signed up for either and I wouldn't be surprise if he has never personally setup a social media account. He goes to congress and questions a Facebook CEO and shows he has no idea what he is talking about but he has a vote that could have serious impact on social media.

    All leaders need to make decisions. When all your experience in life point to one way of doing things and then some suggest an alternate solution which is digital, intangible and something you have never used before compared to something you have used your whole life which solution will they favor? I feel fresh blood will lead to new fresh solutions. When I hear Biden talking about record players and radio programs it gives me chills. I know he is using it as examples he is familiar with but if he has a weak team that is afraid to challenge him on his views it frightens me.

    Sorry I am re quoting this but I think this is a good example. You said "If we shifted this tide to electing younger people, we are alienating all the senior citizens that support older candidates." Why are those senior citizens alienated? Shouldn't it be about the candidate that can do the jobs the best? I think they are supporting older candidates because they are old. They are comfortable with them because they come from the some era and share their ideas and world views. This is my fear with older politicians. They are choosing solutions and ideas they know. What they are comfortable with. Not what is necessarily the best decision.

    I agree that judging people solely based on a single statistic like age is in often unfair. We normally do things like this to keep is simple. Why do we have a minimum age for president? Isn't it possible that a 34 year old could make an excellent president. I think the idea is based on what you said early about wanting to have a president with a certain level of wisdom and life experience so we arbitrarily set the number at 35. When you apply for a credit card the have an annual income level minimum. Someone below it could be extremely fiscally responsible but because of the minimums they could be denied the credit card. So setting an upper limit like 65 or 70 would be fine by me. I understand it may be unfair for some but these are just positions. If they possess wisdom and knowledge that is that beneficial to the country become an advisor to the elected politician. Why should it be young advisor to old politicians. Lets try it the other way. If Joe Biden has a lot of great advice or wisdom he should ask for a position advising the next president but let someone else make the decisions.
     
  11. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The fraud critisising the seniors...

     
  12. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    The video has nothing to do with the post topic.
     
  13. Pred

    Pred Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Can’t run for any office at 70. I don’t care how with it you may appear. You’re too ****ing old.
     
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  14. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Voters can already decide if the want to vote for an elderly sex offender!
     
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  15. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It as to do with the biggest fraudster alive who’s name is in the title of this thread.
     
  16. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Elon's point on 70 yrs of age is worth the voter considering.

    Eccentric Billionaire Accomplishes More For Free Speech In One Afternoon Than Republicans Have In Decades.

    [​IMG]
    I wish the GOP was more committed to something other than holding power.
     
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  17. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly.

    Here's an idea - let the voters decide.
     
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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  19. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Benjamin Franklin, arguably the most important figure in US history, made invaluable contributions at the Constitutional Convention in his early 80's. I disagree with the proposal.
     
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  20. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Clearly such an idea would be grandfathered in.
     
  21. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Those that are eighty are War Babies.
     
  22. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    He was not an elected official.
     
  23. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Something to think about -- Elon wants Twitter members to be able to say anything yet he doesn't want the voters to decide if they want to vote for a 71-year-old. I say let the voters decide when we have primaries. We all age at different degrees.
     
  24. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The point is he was more than capable to help guide the adoption of the Constitution 10 years beyond Musk's arbitrary cut off.
     
  25. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Voters don't decide ****. The parties and the oligarchs that control them decide which candidates are acceptable for them. Anyone else that attempts to run for president will be discredited, bribed to go away, and/or threatened. Then the voters get the chance to decide which of the pre-approved candidates they would like. At that point it doesn't really matter, because any candidate that makes it through is either completely owned, or so corrupt and powerful in his own right that it doesn't matter (Trump). The vote with only 2 parties, which is only one party pretending to be 2, is a massive scam that they have set up perfectly so that it is close to impossible for them to lose power.
     

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