Ignorance concerning Covid is taking a toll.

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Natty Bumpo, Dec 5, 2021.

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  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, their body, their choice - we can disagree with that choice though, but the choice should still be theirs
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
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  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    You make a giant assumption they all read or give a damn about social media at all.

    That's just what you have been told to believe.
     
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  3. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    OK. Thanks for that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  4. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    It's not the only thing some folks are getting very bossy about.

    Mark Zuckerberg Wants Your Nude Photos (But Don’t Worry. It’s for Your Own Good). NO!

    Consumer Reports has an online article that is easily understood and shows how to adjust your google and facebook settings so that these bastards don't have a real time data trail of everywhere you go and every keystroke.
     
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  5. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :xmassanta: Santa says : ~ Those who are duped by their own government and media wallow in ignorance. No toilet paper for you ! HO HO ... :xmasrudolph:

    " It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. "

    ~ Thomas Sowell
     
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  6. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be another victim of Fake News. Where do you get your "data"?

    “(Reuters) - Freedom of Information Act requests are rarely speedy, but when a group of scientists asked the federal government to share the data it relied upon in licensing Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine, the response went beyond typical bureaucratic foot-dragging.

    As in 55 years beyond.

    That’s how long the Food & Drug Administration in court papers this week proposes it should be given to review and release the trove of vaccine-related documents responsive to the request. If a federal judge in Texas agrees, plaintiffs Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency can expect to see the full record in 2076.”
    REUTERS, Wait what? FDA wants 55 years to process FOIA request over vaccine data, By Jenna Greene, 11/18/21.
    https://www.reuters.com/legal/gover...ss-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/
     
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    lol, only a mater of time before a hacker leaks those, no way would I recommend anyone do that

    reporting the images as they appear online should be enough
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, you believed every Fauci flip flop I bet.
     
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  9. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    "Scientific fact" based on the data?
     
  10. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I'll give you the overestimating hospitalization one - I could nitpick but probably not worth it.

    The mask thing - initially the concern was there would not be enough n95 masks for healthcare providers if everybody used them. To which a better leader than Trump or Biden would have said hey, we need to produce more (though to be fair, people aren't as receptive to it now, people are just tired of wearing masks). Why Can't America Make Enough N95 Masks? 6 Months Into Pandemic, Shortages Persist : NPR

    The two hospitals I've worked at since covid started they've given one N95 mask and instructed us to use it over and over and ask for a replacement when needed. There are also the blue surgical masks with ear loops (not n95) which I have about 200 of from rarely throwing them away and automatically getting one each time I come into work. Those are also more effective than cloth masks and probably the best easily available mask for everyday use. Cloth masks - they're more effective than nothing. I am not aware of a recommendation from the cdc that I had a problem with given the info available at the time except that initial confusion on whether masks were indicated at all (early pandemic).

    Infection in public is the most important to mitigate against, but mostly indoor spaces. Masks are also effective at home, but the idea was to disrupt the spread by limiting the number of people the virus could spread to. If the virus spreads to a household and doesn't spread beyond it, that's progress towards stopping the spread because the virus must continuously infect more than 1 new person to keep propagating. People just thought it was impractical to keep wearing a mask and distancing at home, because people barely tolerate it in public, let alone 24/7.

    Innate immunity doesn't protect them? Not sure what you're referring to. Without some innate immunity we'd just die of most diseases and from some organisms that don't normally even cause disease. Most people don't understand the immune system well enough to even articulate an opinion on it, so not sure what you're talking about.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  11. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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  12. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    I assume most folks who whinge about being socially responsible just get in a tizzy because they are doctrinaire ideologues who favor permissiveness, allowing the ignorant and indifferent the privilege of wantonly endangering others.
     
  13. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    Others should just get the mask I've link multiple times if others are concerned. Assume responsibility for their own health and safety.

    Easy peezy, lemon squizey
     
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  14. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    When I was in college, I lived in an apartment building where there was one mentally disturbed tenant. He let garbage accumulate in his apartment, and it stunk. He became angry when other occupants and the landlord politely asked him to do something about it. Eventually, there was a rat infestation, and the health department evicted him.

    He was a sad case, but he had his "personal freedom" for which he made everyone else pay.
     
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  15. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    Cool story bro.
     
  16. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Super athlete refuses vaccine, dies tragically

    A 42-year-old British bodybuilder died from COVID-19 after he refused to get the vaccine and now his family is reflecting on what led up to his fateful death.

    John Eyers led an eventful life, as a teen he was champion pole-vaulter and played hockey, then grew up to compete in bodybuilding competitions, triathlons and mountain climbing, his twin sister Jenny McCann told The Guardian.

    McCann described her brother as gregarious and fun loving, but said he expressed concerns about the COVID-19 vaccine and that he didn’t want to be treated as a guinea pig. “John started saying really crazy things that didn’t make sense, about how people were only getting the vaccine for free McDonald’s, and there was formaldehyde in it.”

    ... https://thehill.com/changing-americ...super-athlete-refuses-vaccine-dies-tragically

    Another day, another tragedy due to vaccine misinformation.
     
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  17. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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  18. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    cancer is not a communicable disease. Covid IS. A communicable disease affects our collective choices ................because we INFECT others when we are sick with the virus. One does NOT have the choice or freedom to willfully INFECT others with a virus...........as that is irresponsible health practices.

    Just like blowing smoke in someone's face is an irresponsible health practice. (and very bad form)
     
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  19. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    There will always be some that just show no concern for the well-being of others.
     
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  20. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Not sure folks realize how destructive misinformation/ disinformation can be. Today's culture is saturated with same..........and when folks CHOOSE their information sources based on their personal biases ........ they remain ignorant and uninformed......and biased..
     
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  21. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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  22. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t do the surveys. If you have a problem with them by all means speak up. I’m for truth and accuracy so am always open to (in fact encourage) evidence showing I’m incorrect.
    I’m always thankful when people prove my points for me. Yes, initially there was a shortage. But there should not have been the silly lies that cloth masks are as good as surgical grade masks. And Democrats and progressives accepted that lie and defend it tooth and nail on PF to this day even though there is NO evidence cloth masks are anywhere near as effective.

    Now, what’s really sad is even your hospital gave you the shaft. By the end of 2020 there was an OVERSUPPLY of domestically produced NIOSH approved N95 masks. They were gathering dust on warehouse shelves while the CDC, Dr. Fauci, and your hospital told you there was a shortage.

    Here are a couple posts from me on February 13, 2021, already upset with the CDC continuing to lie about mask shortages.
    Here are some more posts from October 2021 with more information on the fraud that cost thousands of American lives.
    In short, the CDC lied about mask availability for about a year, recommending AGAINST available, affordable, excellent mitigation. And Democrats and progressives still believe the lie that masks were short and that cloth masks are as good as surgical grade masks.

    No, the course taken for recommending masks in the places least likely to become infected flies in the face of all principles of epidemiology. The fact in many instances lockdowns didn’t reduce infection rates proved this out. Recommending and mandating masks while riding a bicycle in the park but not even informing people wearing a mask while they watch TV in their house could save their spouses life was not only wrong, it’s borderline criminal. And Democrats and progressives still deny principles of epidemiology on this matter.
    I’m talking about being the first person to inform PF that obesity makes one more likely to become infected, showing peer reviewed studies confirming it, and the fact being ignored and ridiculed by progressives. I’m talking about informing progressives/Democrats of ways we can help our innate immune systems fight Covid and having it called BS. Here is that information:
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?posts/1073045677/

    No most don’t understand the immune system. That is true. That’s why they ought not to call peer reviewed studies on the matter BS without some counter-evidence. But Democrats and progressives (just like Republicans) have silly notions stuffed in their heads by media and public health officials. And they will believe any lie they are told to believe even when peer reviewed science shows the lie. That’s my point. A Republican anti masker is no more (or less) of a science denier than a Democrat parroting the lie cloth masks are as good as N95s (I’ve had one claim cloth masks are actually better). .

    This is unfortunate because it means most of society wants to be lied to by someone of their choosing. And politicians, media, and public health officials are more than willing to oblige them, even when it means unnecessary death and destruction of health.
     
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  23. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    We all know cloth masks are less effective.

    200 million actually isn't much in this context... I mean, that's fewer than 1 mask per person and a lot of people don't reuse masks in general. They should, though. But my position remains the same either way. Surgical masks are great, N95 is even better (if you can tolerate it, I can't wait to take it off everytime I've ever used it), and cloth masks are better than nothing. Yep, something went wrong in terms of people not using better masks. No, it wasn't some left-wing conspiracy.

    Odds of being infected is about people you're exposed to, and if you do manage to limit your exposure to your own household, that means you're all less likely to get it at all, and if you do it'll stay within your household. It is a great mitigation strategy since we can't expect husband and wife to wear masks while having sex, for example, or for people to wear masks 24/7. The highest risk time is in an indoor, crowded public place where you're exposed to the respiratory droplets of lots of people.

    True, people didn't realize at first that being outdoors is a lot lower risk of spread... some people still think surfaces are important (they're not). But wearing a mask with your spouse? Normal people just won't do that unless they think they're infected and it's temporary.

    I haven't seen anybody claim a cloth mask is better at all, but there are always going to be uninformed people with odd ideas.

    Blame Ailes, Fox, Newt, McConnell, Trump, maybe also Rachel Maddow but she's more a liberal counterreaction to the above. This "two realities" thing we have going on is completely from propaganda machines splitting us apart, and it all started when Ailes vowed to never allow another Nixon-style impeachment, and the tool for this was Fox news.
     
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  24. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ I don't think anybody said misinformation was "left-wing conspiracy" ... ? :confuse:'
     
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  25. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Wish that was true. Dr. Fauci claimed cloth masks are just as good in July of 2020 and I’ve had numerous Democrats/progressives defend that statement here on PF.
    See. Even you are grasping at straws to defend denial of science by public health authorities and your own employer. That’s 200 million stockpiled in one company after they idled production and laid off 1500 workers. There was NEVER a shortage after late fall 2020/ early winter 2021. Yet Democrats and progressives defend the lie….just as crazy as an anti masker Trump supporter.
    Incorrect. You prove my point again. More transmission occurred in households than any other place. Not addressing this was a major blunder and a denial of science by public health officials. You bought the disinformation and are repeating it.

    This brings me to another point where Democrats and progressives deny science—the acceptance of the lie masks should be worn to protect others. This is denial of science. The most effective way to ensure you don’t spread virons to others is to ensure you do not become infected yourself. This plays into the N95 metric. The correct advice would have been to wear quality masks to protect the wearer. An uninflected person cannot infect others. Again, Democrats and progressives still repeat the ridiculously science denying mantra we should wear masks to protect others. No. From an epidemiological perspective protecting the individual from infection is always most effective.

    There is no reason to wear a mask during sex or 24/7. Just the act of wearing a quality mask while watching TV would have prevented untold numbers of infections and deaths. The 24/7 and sex argument is a strawman. Not addressing transmission in the home is one of the gravest errors by public health officials.

    Conspiracy? We are discussing denial of science by Democrats/progressives, no? I haven’t any interest in conspiracy. Just the facts please as I’ve done.
    Anyone who won’t wear a mask to mitigate risk to their own family’s wellbeing has no business criticizing someone for not being vaccinated. To be clear, it’s your personal choice and always should be, just like vaccination. But when you make that choice you must concede others have the right to choose their approach to Covid as well.
    Fauci claimed they were equal. There is a poster here on PF who maintains cloth are better. He’s provided me many opportunities to demonstrate science denial of progressives so I’m quite thankful.

    I can’t comment on what television or other media personalities are responsible most for division because I don’t even have the ability to watch television. But Biden seems to be doing just as good a job at dividing as Trump did with Covid. I’m still waiting for him to increase PCR testing 7 fold from levels during the debates as he promised—which reminds me of another falsehood Democrats and progressives cling to—that PCR tests are effective at identifying people at risk of transmitting SARS-CoV-2. That’s actually why testing wasn’t increased 7 fold. It was known to be a waste of resources. Yet back in 2020 progressives told me universal testing was the only thing that could end the pandemic and that if anyone who wanted a test could get tested it would end the pandemic. Yes, there is a plethora of denials of science from both tribes.

    Oh, a couple other denials of science I hear from Democrats/progressives. Covid vaccines don’t prevent anyone from getting Covid (being infected). They just train your immune system to fight it after getting it. And another favorite I’ve had to correct a lot—90-95% of Covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated. LOL. A funny one that’s relatively harmless but shows the propensity of people to make judgments and form opinions based on feelings instead of empirical evidence—wanting to censor Trump for “misinformation” when he said 100,000 people died of the flu annually. Of course he was just blowing smoke….he’s as pig ignorant of virology as Biden, but he was correct…a blind squirrel finding a nut. But progressives here didn’t see a problem censoring a true statement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
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