The Book of Revelation and the Bible

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Lindis, Dec 16, 2021.

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Should the Book of Revelation be thrown out of the Bible?

  1. yes

    5 vote(s)
    19.2%
  2. no

    18 vote(s)
    69.2%
  3. no comment

    3 vote(s)
    11.5%
  1. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I answered your question and then some. If you don't understand that, then it seems to me that the labor is yours or not. Your choice.
     
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You completely avoided the question.. the above being just more avoidance ....

    How are you going to come to a greater understanding - via Trust in God - if you do not wrestle with that which you do not understand ?

    You trotting out this obvious flaw in logic and reason - was an avoidance tactic of a different question .. now lost in the annals of book of "Bad Thoughts" now safely locked away behind the one way door that is never to be opened - as God forbids we wrestle with that which we do not understand.. on our way to greater understanding.

    The Truth - the Way - The Light .. That about sum it up mate ?
     
  3. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    Be real.
     
  4. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I think you are approaching this academically rather than practically as it was meant. Salvation must be practiced. Then what is learned or understood along the way, comes in its proper order and season. (That's why I said I don't wrestle with something I don't understand unless it is timely or necessary to my next step. And that I set it aside and abide in what I know) It isn't a jigsaw puzzle that you dump out and assemble at arms length. But is rather the building of ones own soul. At any rate it begins with the first principles which are a spiritual testimony from God that Jesus is the savior. This is followed by repentance, baptism, and receiving of the gift of the Holy Ghost by one having the Priesthood authority to do so. Everything else follows that. If you are thirsty and come upon a lake, you don't drink the whole lake. You take a couple of drinks from the water near you. If that isn't satisfactory, then neither will drinking the whole lake.
     
  5. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Always.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Doesn't take an academic to figure out you are avoiding the question .. rambling on about a topic that is not even being discussed .. desperate to avoid the one that was being discussed.

    You stated that you don't wrestle with thinks you don't understand -- at the same time stated you Trust in God to lead you to greater understanding How are you going to come to a greater understanding - via Trust in God - if you do not wrestle with that which you do not understand ?

    What does your belief that Salvation must be practices have to do with Trust that God will lead you to greater understanding .. keeping in mind that you do not wrestle with things you don't understand... Salvation being one of those things you don't understand .. ?
     
  7. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I don't fret over something incomprehensible to me in scripture. I just continue in what I know, and maintain my trust in God that if at some future date it be relevant to my understanding, then upon reconsideration of it, it might make sense to me. For gosh sakes man, today isn't tomorrow. Be patient. I already know that God lives and is divine. And he knows me. In fact, he's the only person in my life who has ever known me completely. Consequently, I don't seek him or belief in him thru scriptures. And I learn at my own pace. What a Jewish tribe did six thousand years ago is nearly irrelevant to me. If it means that much to you, then dive in to search for God. Imo you'd accomplish more to ask God in prayer. He still lives and is eternally the same yesterday, today and forever. My personal challenges on a daily basis have basically nothing to do with scriptures. My challenges are my weaknesses, and the practice of what I already know, such as forgiveness, love, charity and so forth. So my plate is full. That's why I say an ancient Jewish tribes religious practice, however curious or contradictory it may be to somethin else in scripture is not on my radar or within the scope of my concern. If there is something you are wrestling with then say it and maybe I will have an insight or maybe not.
     
  8. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Just remember, the fairy tale says that everyone gets fed up with the God character and curse him. Everyone will also include you and the pope and all of the preachers and choir members.
     
  9. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Couldn't the same be said of most of the Old Testament?

    No, it should not be thrown out. It is very interesting, really, because it shows you how the more zealous Jews of the time regarded Rome. That book is about Rome and how they saw the Roman occupation and descration of their holy sites as a sign of the end times, in case you didn't know.

    The Bible is a lot more fun to read and think about once you drop the notion of believing in it as some kind of history book and simply look at it as a source for studying an ancient culture and the origins of Christianity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    What is your god's name?

    What is your version of the afterlife, if you have one?

    Does your god have a favorite person other than you?

    What are the five main points in your religion?
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jewish Tribes ? .. thought we were talking about how Trust in God to lead you to understanding ... Silly me ?!
    God lives - is divine - knows you .. Vunderbar .. but, . unrelated to how Trust leads to understanding but .. how would someone other than God know you completely .. never mind .. forget that rhetorical question .. don't want to open a door to yet another rabbit hole.

    Inbetween this unrelated cacophony .. you state that scripture is irrelevent to your belief -- so not part of how Trust in God Leads you to understanding - not part of your daily life. --- Good to know a few things that God Doesn't use to lead you to understanding .. but the question here is How Trust in God leads us to understanding .. not how he doesn't do it

    Then to sum up try to deflect to me .. on some unrelated issue - but, this is not about me nor about looking for God in Jewish Tribes - .. this is about your claim that God leads you to understanding. A claim/ subject you are doing cartwheels to avoid.

    Today is not tommorrow ... Enightening

    and once again you reinterate your method of avoiding understanding - avoid wrestling with things you don't understand -- hoping one day that an Angel will land on your head at some future date and you will become all knowing.

    So I supposed you have answered the question.

    How are you going to come to a greater understanding - via Trust in God - if you do not wrestle with that which you do not understand ?

    No need to wrestle with things we don't understand - hide them away in a box ..don't question - don't fret .. No worries ... as one day in the future an Angel is going to land on head ... Simple.
     
  12. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I hope you find what you're looking for.
     
  13. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    -Jesus Christ
    -Eternal life
    -God is not a respecter of persons
    -For me personally it is to worship the one true living God. My Church which is actually the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has thirteen Articles of Faith. They are:
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/articles-of-faith
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe Saint John was told by God to write it down, so who are we to question it. It's called the Apocrypha in Greek. Is it in the Catholic Bible?
     
  15. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interpretation of the Bible depends on one's enlightenment by the Holy Spirit and their personal state of Grace. I would give it up if I were you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2021
  16. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    It is! :)
     
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again .. desperate avoidance of the troubling question. - the net into which you cast yourself into. What I am looking for is for you to stop avoiding your claims.

    How are you going to come to a greater understanding - via Trust in God - if you do not wrestle with that which you do not understand ?
     
  18. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Salvation isn't in the understanding of all things, but in the practice today of what you know now. Puzzling over a five thousand year old scripture is nearly an irrelevant waste of time for practical purpose. Salvation is thru acceptance of Jesus Christ and following his doctrine. The best that one could gain from any doctrine previous to him is to arrive at the concept that he is the savior. If you wish to spend your time and energies traversing old roads to arrive at the truth when the truth has already come, then go ahead. I have already found God or he me. And it wasn't thru reading or understanding scriptures, but thru a personal revelation from God. Don't you get that? God is real. The reason there are forty thousand different Christian denominations is because people make the same mistake as you, and try to build God from their own interpretations of scriptures. Would you have me discard God so that I may go search for him or for a better God. There is only one God. The best that I could achieve from wrestling and puzzling over ancient Jewish scripture is to arrive at where I already am. I am ignorant of much more than what I know. But what I know is true. So I hold fast to it and do not allow my ignorance or questions to complicate it. For instance, what about all the people and generations who never heard of God and who have passed away. What becomes of them? I don't know. I leave that to God and entrust all things to him. If God is perfect, who am I to doubt him in anything. And if I fault God, then in whom do I trust. Should I be cast about like a dead leaf by the varied winds of mans doctrines in the matter... Or glut myself on life to avoid despair like a drunkard? This describes my faith:
    John 4:14
    14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
    I don't know why you see deceit in my words when all I've said repeatedly is the truth. I know my heart. And it is to God. BTW, what I said is that I don't wrestle with things I don't understand, but rather abide in that which I know and trust in God. Your reorganizing of my words and intent to suit your own malice is on you, not me. Now it's your turn to explain yourself.
     
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  19. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anything but, in fact quite the opposite. If one reads the lives of the Saints as I have, they would find that those who God loves the most and who did His bidding, are like Jesus's Disciples. They had no money or possessions and suffered not only from pain and ailments, but also from an unbearable amount of slander.
     
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  20. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think people fully understand the essence of Christianity. The Christian faith has to do solely with the condition of one's heart and the love within it to attain unity with the divine. This is something given to man through the Grace of God - if one asks for it of course.

    Christianity has nothing to do with intellectual discourses over various interpretations, etc. Actually, it's quite the opposite of that - so that a pure and innocent child and one who might be mentally challenged can enter God's existence, but not those whose arrogance of intellect has formed a barrier separating them from God.
     
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  21. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where you get that from. His followers will bear it in course, while the remainder will not, just as they have done in their lives. I hope to be able to bear all things.
     
  22. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    I guess one of the objections I have with Jesus providing “salvation” is that some people have done horrible things to other people and rather than seeking the forgiveness of those they have wronged, rather than trying to make amends with those they have wronged, they just jump in a fountain and ask Jesus to say it’s ok and then, with either with no feedback at al, or with unverifiable feedback that exists only in their mind, they declare themselves forgiven.
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its Self deciet in your words .. that is plain to see - Just look at your words

    You said previously you come to a greater understanding - via Trust in God - then claim you do not wrestle with that which you do not understand ?

    You say below .. scripture is an irrelevant waste of time for practical purpose .. then you post the above Scripture. Why would you post what you have just labeled an irrelevant waste of time ..with no practical purpose - as "The Truth" ?

    This is mind bending self deception .. directly contradicting yourself in more ways than one

    You post what you figure is "The Truth" The Straight goods on salvation --- .. "Drink from the water that Jesus gives - and the well of eternal life will spring up inside you" a passage that is extremely vague - such that 10 different people will have 10 different interpretations

    My interpretation of this passage -- for what its worth - Take in the teachings of Jesus .. Drink from the well of eternal life .. this much seems abundantly clear - and you will have eternal life. Perhaps not all of the 10 would agree . but most. The problem is then "what are the teachings of Jesus" and here we will get 10 different stories.

    but why are we discussing this .. as You don't care ... as scripture is an irrelevant wast of time for the most part .. and you don't wrestle with things you don't understand .. case closed.

    So what you claim is Truth in relation to Salvation -- you claim is an irrelevant waste of time - something you do not care enough about to try to understand ... case closed

    Why would anyone take a passage from the Bible that you claim has no relevance to salvation .. an irrelevant waste of time that you have never bothered to try to understand .. cause you don't wrestle with things you don't understand - as Truth ?


    A preposterous claim - given you have stated that the Doctrine of Jesus has no relevance to salvation - an irrelevant waste of time.

    What doctrine are we supposed to follow to achieve this salvation ? and where did you get this doctrine - if not from The Bible or some other Holy Book -- all of which you have claimed has no relevance to salvation.. in a twisted mind bending contradiction of yourself.

    OH .. right .. God sat down with you for Tea one day .. how could I forget .. as we went through this before .. ending up in another mind bending trap of self deception.

    Here is your chance for redemption. Tell me of this "Doctrine" given you directly from Jesus .. last time - you ended up refusing to answer --after a dance of avoidance, denial and self deception.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
  24. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I leave you to your petty malice.
     
  25. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I think you underestimate Gods perception and discretion. He said, "As you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me." So whether for good or bad, everything we do we do to God. In my experience, repentance is a process or path which carries on even after baptism regarding more weighty sins. Eventually God himself must forgive you to be actually forgiven. All the ordinances in the world can't undo that fact. We are also commanded to forgive those who trespass against us, or else how can one ask for forgiveness if one doesn't extend that privilege. As you have intuited, there really is no escaping Gods judgment.
     

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