US/NATO rule out halt to expansion,reject Russia demands.

I understand what you are saying. But I still get the feeling that I'm the frog and the scorpion has just asked me to swim him across the river.

 

What's the difference between this and any other agreement we've made with them? They've always been Russian.

 

I don't know what it is. I just can already feel the dagger sticking in our back for some reason.

I admit that I can't find any flaws in your logic.

 

No...we can't lose.

They will break agreements....any agreements be it written,verbal, handshake, or on a $hithouse wall you can be assured the Russkis will break it....it means eff all to them.

An iron pipe to the head and broken legs ....and you definitely have their attention.

 

OK so you are in the "no agreements-ever" with Russia camp.

Got it.

 

Well...agreements...yes.

But in the Russians case you almost need to have your boot on their throat to see that they uphold their end of the deal.

 

Kind of creepy, kind of realistic obervation. As I see it fault lines develop and war releases the stress.
But given time new stresses begin.
I see yourtheory working best with Israel and Hamas, Israel and Iran, China and USA, NATO and Russia,
India and Pakistan.
But I am not sure how many millions will die - nuclear weapons are not really aimed at civilian centers, they
are mostly designed to take out other nukes, and ports, munitions, air fields etc..

 

Most of them are now near urban centres with the urban spread.

 

Yes, sigh.
But I would imagine it would take a lot of nukes to take out, say, Los Angeles.
It's a huge sprawling place.
Better to use your nuke inventory where there's some strategic or tactical gain.
Also bearing in mind that if you begin targetting civilians instead of the military
the other-guys can do the same to you.

 

We would strike enemy industrial centers in retaliation if our own cities were destroyed.

 

And exactly how do you think a war with Russia will end for all involved? Before everyone start getting their bravado on remember what happened in Vietnam and more recently Afghanistan. Freaking warmongers never learn.

 

If Russia invades the EU it will end with the massive slaughter of the invading Russians.

Those are both cases of the US willing a war and then leftist politicians betraying our ally for no reason, leading to that ally being destroyed.

The only lesson here is to never vote for antiwar politicians who like to betray our allies.

 

Just more insane bravadoism..

 

If Russia invades the EU, their invasion will be slaughtered. That's just the way it is.

 

Russia invading the EU is ridiculous.

 

True. But if they do it, their invasion will be annihilated.

 

How would they even get there? They don't have the Fulda Gap to roll through anymore.

 

The most likely Russian invasion of the EU is an attack on the Baltic states.

That's why it is good to station heavy forces in Poland. If Russia invades the Baltics, NATO forces in Poland can push north to capture Kaliningrad and push the invasion out of the Baltics.

Russia can also get to Poland through Belarus. And if they capture Odessa and the north coast of the Black Sea, they can get to Romania.

 

Russia isn't the Soviet Union. I don't see a scenario in which Russia launches an attack against NATO (that's what you are really saying, not the EU).

 

That reeks of dermo.

 

Putin would have to believe that NATO would not have the will to risk war over the Baltics.

Imagine all the people who are currently saying that Ukraine and Taiwan are not worth fighting for, in the future saying that the Baltics are not worth fighting for.

If we have a strong force in Poland poised to push north if Russia invades the Baltics, that will probably deter Putin. And that is why we should use an expansion of his invasion of Ukraine as an excuse to place those heavy forces in Poland.

 

The "Baltics," Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, are already NATO members. Obviously Ukraine and Taiwan (?) are not. Your argument is flawed.

 

Good, show Putin where to get off.

 

Just like the US "slaughtered" the primitive Vietnamese and Taliban? Put your Johnson back in your pants.

 

I perceive no flaws. Them being in NATO will not deter Putin from invading the Baltics if he believes that we will not defend them.

Being poised to defend the Baltics with a credible force will deter Putin from invading them. And if he is somehow not deterred, it will allow NATO to easily repel his invasion.