Well, it's finally happened, Justice Dept handed down Seditious Conspiracy indictments

Rinse and repeat! Those are hard charges to stick but they are deserving.

 

Barr was corrupt.

I'll take Horowitz's assessment over Barr.

 

The Mueller investigation wasn't a pure 'criminal investigation', it was a hybrid, it's purpose was a report to congress and if crimes are found, referrals are made.

It's only been 12 months, patience.

Indicting a president would take time to build a case, and a lot of little guys busted on the way up.
Which is, by the way, what Garland is doing.

 

12 months? Its been 3 years since Mueller submitted his report. If there was actually anything provable beyond a reasonable doubt in Mueller's investigation then Trump should have been indicted Jan 21 2021. I'd say the 20th but I'm being nice.

 

Were BLM/ANTIFA trying to overthrow the government?

 

A number of these guys will take plea deals to stay out of prison. I doubt any of them will be able to say more than "I thought Trump wanted us to stop the certification."

Does that really establish Trump's criminal guilt? I doubt it.

Is he named as a co-conspirator? Or an un- indicted co-conspirator?

 

They literally did in Chaz/Chop where no cop was allowed.

 

You mean they took over government seat of power there? I thought they just cordened off a few streets?

 

LINK: 18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

LINK: 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

You may want to check your definitions before continuing to try and spin this. If what happened on 1/6 was an insurrection, then so was every autonomous zones that was put up by BLM/ANTIFA. If you're not a hypocrite blinded by partisan rose colored glasses.

I'll admit that what happened on 1/6 was an insurrection, the moment that Dems apply the same to the BLM autonomous zones like Chaz/Chop and go after them just as hard as they are going after 1/6 rioters. Until then I'll apply the same logic that they use for BLM to 1/6. That is what consistency looks like.

 

Your right. Have to wonder why the Capital Police didn't allow the Guard to help secure the Capital after the FBI informed them that some groups were planning to cause trouble at the Capital. I mean with such a large crowd; it would seem likely that some in the crowd would get out of hand and inspire others to follow along. Had they done that, there never would have been a break in of the Capital.

 

The riots 2020 are NOT equaitable to the attempt to overturn OUR Presidential election. If Benedict Donald would have pulled that off it would have been the end to Government by the People. Nothing that happened in 2020 would have changed OUR very way of life. None of it did or could have, and it can be argued that some of it WAS successful.

The attack on OUR Capitol, by Americans FOR a sitting president is unequaled, unprecedented and the consequences, had it succeeded, unimaginable.

 

Your opinion is noted. But dismissed.

 

Well we could go on dismissing each other until we're all slaves to an Autocratic Government, couldn't we.

1. The riots of 2020 had zero potential to change our way of life.

2. The January 6th attack on our Capitol AbsaByGodLutely did. AND, everything we hold dear, especially Government BY the People.

 

No, I don't. Not in the foreseeable future, anyway. However, I do think Trump envy's dictators who don't have to deal with out constitution. Whether that means it's possible he could become a dictator, no, I don't think that, but i do believe he's be the worst thing possible for this country if he were reelected.

If he runs again, he will lose the popular vote, again, and that will remain will be whether or not his minions who have been newly installed will go along with his shenanigans, or do the right thing.

My gut feeling is that there will be a lot of unnecessary 'recounts' and they might succeed, the next time, and delaying the 1/6 certification past the deadline throwing the vote to the house, where republicans have a 2 state advantage '

What I'd like to see is Biden to step down, and let let Klobuchar and Harris duke it out for the nomination.

I think that if Klobuchar won the nomination, she will beat any republican.

Trump's a bad guy, but he's no Hitler.

 

All told, there are only about 4 slam dunk cases for obstruction in the Mueller Report.

Since then, there was 1/6. So, what, you really think a new AG is going to focus on obstruction when 1/6 just happened, which beckons for new investigations, depositions galore, and on and on?

No way, that you would say that tells me you know very little about what is going on.

It takes more time for a new administration to do something like that. It's never been done before, think about what you are saying.

For one thing, it would be what is known as a 'maiden voyage indictment', what that means is that this type of indictment, charging a former president of the United States, has never been done before. Prosecutors are famous for not wanting to embark on a maiden voyage prosecution, for such is risky, reputations are on the line, etc.

Anyone who is going to charge such a large, high value target, well, yo know the old saying, if you aim at the king, you'd better not miss. The same is true with a former president. Your legacy, your career, it's all on the line. You lose this one and YOU lose, not just the case, your life will be in shatters, and you expect a new AG just to jump in there on day one? Are you kidding me?

Nothing in the Mueller report is about 1/6, and 1/6 would be the focus of any new charge. NO way in hell is a new AG going to indict a former president on day one without TONS of evidence gathered, up to day evidence, collected, hundreds of depositions garnered, and on and on. NO way in hell could a former president be charged on day one, that's beyond judicious and indicates your lack of knowledge of how things are done.

Imagine if a new AG indicted the former prez on day one, the blow back that would happen, all done on a national scale without the AG's ducks in a row accomplished, he'd be an easy target. No way in hell is an AG going to stick his neck out like that without a truckload of arrows in his legal quiver. I mean, do I really have to explain this to you?

 

Its sounds like you think Trump is the only source from which tyranny could develope...

 

The wealthy have, all my nearly 71, years been working toward an Autocracy they control. Their vision, IMHO, has been to slowly replace Government By the PEOPLE, with an Oligarchic Autocracy that appears to be the tricameral government we everyday Americans were taught to love. But, is headed by a puppet that's in their pocket. And they were doing it in a way we wouldn't have even noticed.

What tRump did, as much as they despise him, is show just how close they are to their goal. That is why, guys like Lyndsey Graham and Kevin McCarthy did their head spinning flip-flop from vociferously denouncing tRump and "HIS" January 6th insurrection to obfuscating and denying that it was anything to worry about at all. Not all, but an awful lot of the GOP, like the two above, have been sold out to the wealthy for quite sometime. Once they rallied their wagons, post 1/6, they realized the opportunity it presented. Benedict Donald has moved up their take-over by decades.

Now they see that as many as a third of Americans will willingly trade self-governance for slavery and actively help them achieve their goal. So their method and plan has changed. They mean to strike while the iron is hot. Using the useful idiot tRump to take over in one fell swoop, in 2024. And Americans will go like sheep to the slaughter supporting his planed Kleptocracy. (HIS not theirs - the wealthy, once the take over is a fate-accompli they may just dispose of him like the rubbish he is.)

WE AmeriCANs are at a crossroads where we will have Government by the People, or it will disappear from the earth to be replaced by Autocratic Slavery ... at our own hands.

 

You don't think POTUS is their only puppet do you? We are told whom to elect by the media, and our options are whoever gets the most advertizing money from the wealthy. This has been the case for a very long time...

 

No, I pointed out two of the most obvious in my post, and yes, I realize the puppet masters have puppets on both sides of the aisle; but, sorry, I do believe the worst, and most, are on the right, not that it really matters.

 

Very interesting discussion. There have always been rumblings that the USA is just too big. That in many ways the East doesn't know what the West is doing.

When the UK had a national issue which affected the foreseeable future of most aspects of the nation, it had a referendum. That has to be the most direct form of democracy available to a free people after a general election, a form of referendum but about one particular issue. Yes there are problems with that too...propaganda, misinformation and opportunities for illegal data gathering (which happened then) but I don't think there is a system which monitors the public voice which can be cleansed of these. Add that to dogged adherence to the "righteousness" of one ideology over another plus the population which doesn't care, and even referendums are tricky.

But I take as probable that in a country so large as the USA, the chances of backroom deals, invisible influence and endless court hearings, the possibility of a national takeover of the effective reins of government is greater in a large country than a smaller one.

It took Hitler nearly 10 years and a specific set of post WW1 circumstances to abolish the Reichstag and divorce power from the people but even he needed the military. I doubt the USA will follow such an example for all its hidden oligarchical behaviour because ultimately, you need to subdue the people and can only do that by use of force. The authors of the Constitution knew that (2nd amendment) and while for many years I didn't see the need for it, I began to understand it on 6th January.
Unlike BLM riots, which were solely for the recognition of equal rights under that constitution, Jan 6 was about that fundamental question...the relationship between the people and the state and the strength of that constitution.
IOW SOME people don't get to decide who gets poser. ALL the people do.

 

You're just making excuses. There is nothing to stop them from charging Trump with anything having to do with Muellers report, convicting him (if it is even possible), and then charging him with other things later on down the line.

 

So, you didn't read the article either. If you did, you would have found out that in a lot of the cases the killed/killers were from the right. So, no, his post wasn't "dead on", just dead.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled
The story shows how a lot of the violence were people affileated on the right.

 

You are responding to a post in which I cite a link from NPR that references a Washington DC's chief medical examiner, who says that Officer Brian Sicknick died of natural causes. Yet your side, in face of clear-cut, sobering fact, doubles down on the lie that he died because of the January 6th riot. I would say it is a "big lie," but I don't want to quote Hitler. I, for one, give people the benefit of the doubt. When they promote misinformation, I think that they are just ignorant. But when they are shown the facts that contradict what they say, and they double down, then that's just straight-up lying; it's nothing but pure mendacity at that point. And that, my friend, are why you are an exemplar of your side. Instead of talking about the facts of what happened on January 6th, you resort to hyperbole and mendacity. Contrast your rhetoric about January 6th to my rhetoric about the BLM-Antifa riots: your rhetoric is subjective, sensational, reactive, and mendacious, whereas I actually point to the numbers (over a dozen people died during the BLM-Antifa riots and the BLM-Antifa riots cost about $2 billion in damages), and it went on for months. When you have to lie and exaggerate about January 6th, it demonstrates that you are simply engaging in theatrics for pure partisan, political purposes, not out of any genuine concern about the immorality of rioting.

 

Quantify "a lot" and explain the context. One of the examples of people "on the right," I presume, would be Kyle Rittenhouse, who was being chased; Rittenhouse killed one man, who had hit him in the neck with a skateboard and grabbed Rittenhouse's gun (Huber) and another man who had earlier threatened to kill him (Rosembaum), and then he injured a third man, who pulled a gun on him (Grosskreutz).