Russia vows to stop USA from "taking over Ukraine".

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by zoom_copter66, Jan 19, 2022.

  1. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly why I put emphasis on our own border. It is neglected while for some mysterious reason we are concerned with other borders.
     
  2. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What are we there for then? Germany is beholden to Russia. Let them go. Brandon signed off on that pipeline while stopping our own. Trump had done something about both which reflected America 1st so I don't see what you are talking about.
     
  3. cabse5

    cabse5 Banned

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    IMO, political elites (some who make money from US wars) want another war. That's also why the media created such a stink about the botched pullout from Afghanistan...Some political elites (of which the MSM are their lapdogs) didn't want to get out of Afghanistan at all.

    Sidenote: That's also why there's never any MSM coverage about the southern border crisis...Because political elites don't care about policing the southern border.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
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  4. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Sweet!!....another one of those cases of "whataboutism"....while distracting from your own disastrous policies.

    What about Warsaw Pact

    What about former USSR

    What about Afghanistan

    What about Cuba

    Czech 68

    Hungary 56

    Georgia 08

    Ukraine 2014

    Famines

    Etc.....two can play this game.:))
     
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  5. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Russia is literally demanding that we somehow stop Ukraine from voluntarily entering NATO, with NATO's consent, otherwise we are somehow "taking over Ukraine." Bull ****. They are just looking for an excuse to invade.
     
  6. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Because they are NATO, unlike Ukraine.
    It was build mostly under Obama and Trump. America has no authority to stop that.
    Say you. As far as I know it was just boycotting companies who were building that pipeline. Companies with no ties to the US. Big whoop.
     
  7. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not to mention their support for the Butcher of Syria. The Putler regime is shameless.
     
  8. Elam

    Elam Banned

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    Most Americans are pitifully ignorant of their government's historical aggression worldwide.

    The USA has stored up a lot of bad karma. And instead of getting better, it's getting worse, much worse.

    Putin is the one who will bring those chickens home to roost.
     
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  9. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    You mean most Americans are unaware of Russian propaganda.

    Putin is a KGB officer turned dictator.
     
  10. Elam

    Elam Banned

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    I post from an objective historical perspective, not a Russian one.

    If Putin knew half of what I know about the dark parts of American history they don't teach in American schools, he wouldn't be hesitating.
     
  11. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Because NATO countries already achieved to get a violent mob to attack the democratically elected government making them flee. An elected government that was pro Russian. With that, the ethnic Russians in Ukraine do not want to be part of that construct created by NATO countries. So it's not Ukraine "voluntarily" who want to join NATO. It's the part that got backed up by NATO who ousted the elected Ukrainian government. While Russia has a point that NATO is interfering in Ukraine to achieve this, to get it's army right up to the border of Russia,... and call an end to this bull ***** thing that goes on.
     
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  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Well that's true, while it's also true that "Most Americans are pitifully ignorant of their government's historical aggression worldwide."

    The US got a habit of fanatically supporting armed regime change, even against elected governments that do not favor the US political.
    Ukraine is one of these countries. They used to have a democratically elected pro Russian government, until the politicians fled for their lives across the border.
    You think Americans are aware of this?
     
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  13. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think that's a lie. The Ukrainian people got rid of a Russian puppet who was going against their national interests. Russia is keen to mischaracterize it and blame it on us, of course. Significantly, they are the only ones who do so.
     
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  14. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    NATO 'moves in' because it's almost universally ASKED to. And even then that happens only after prolonged negotiations and what effectively amounts to an assessment period. They don't march in at the point of a gun. In the absence of things like potential trade, investment, the rule of law and (in the longer term) for a higher standard of living Russia is the one left relying on the latter method of maintaining political relationships.
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True .. but does not change the fact that when Russia moves its military out .. the US/NATO has moved in and built bases.

    and this is despite US/NATO giving assurrances over the years since WW2 that NATO would not encroach. This is Russia's Argument.

    Now with this new insight .. go back and read Post number 1 as will now make more sense perhaps.
     
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  16. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well apparently Trump, somehow, had stopped it and Biden got it going again.

    You never answered.....why did Biden make an effort to allow Russia to finish theirs while he put an end to ours? Reasoning? To weaken America?
     
  17. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    And the reassurances Russia has given over the years?
     
  18. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Fiona Hill says the US looks weak to Putin after 4 years of Trump's 'disastrous presidency' and that it helps explain the Ukraine crisis

    Fiona Hill in a new New York Times op-ed published Monday contended that Russian President Vladimir Putin saw an opportunity to renew aggression toward Ukraine after the US was left weakened by four "disastrous" years under former President Donald Trump.

    Beyond the impact of Trump's presidency, Hill also pointed to the Afghanistan withdrawal to explain why Putin sees an opportunity to challenge the West on Ukraine. President Joe Biden continues to face criticism in Washington and beyond over his handling of the Afghanistan pullout, which coincided with the Taliban regaining control of the country.

    "From Russia's perspective, America's domestic travails after four years of Donald Trump's disastrous presidency, as well as the rifts he created with U.S. allies and then America's precipitous withdrawal from Afghanistan, signal weakness," wrote Hill, who served as the top Russia advisor on the National Security Council under the Trump administration.

    Trump did not immediately respond to a request for comment from Insider.

    ... https://news.yahoo.com/fiona-hill-says-us-looks-215015053.html

    She's not wrong and Putin is not wrong. Trump and his allies have weakened us considerably. Even now, a majority so-called Republicans and wrong-leaning independents who watch Fox News think Putin is a "stronger leader" than Biden and Pompeo is out there praising Putin. Trump and his allies also came dangerously close to ending American democracy and the country remains quite divided, with the right still being extreme in their views and pretty far removed from basic reality. Putin works to divide the US from Europe and Americans from each other, and it has had an effect and promises to pay off more for him as time goes on.

    More to the point of this thread, though, this all helps explain what Putin is after with this Ukraine play. He wants to evict the US from Europe, which is arguably as much a matter of personal revenge on Putin's part to get back at the USSR being forced to withdraw from Eastern Europe in humiliation as it is a practical matter of weakening an opponent and gaining more power, influence and control over Europe. If you think about it, given Russia's energy reserves and exports, Russia could dominate Europe if it weren't for NATO and the US, and it wouldn't need a strong military to do so.
     
  19. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    There is literally no point attempting a discussion wiht someone who believes this.
     
  20. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    First, I'm not your 'mate'. I choose my friends more carefully.

    Second, I'm not wasting a minute more of my time negotiating that stream of consciousness word salad. Dear me, what a mess.

    This is really simple. Either the nations on Russia's border have the right to determine their own fates or they do not. If they do then they can join the only alliance that protects them from Russia. If not then Russia can do whatever it wants with them, as it has to nations not protected by a powerful external force.

    It seems pretty clear which camp you are in. Probably explains all the obfuscation. You know it is indefensible.
     
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  21. dharbert

    dharbert Well-Known Member

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    The best possible outcome is that we do get into a war with Russia and get our taint handed to us, further proving Biden to be the biggest ****-up of all time...
     
  22. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    "Get our taint handed to us"?

    How so?

    Like in Syria...Deir Ezzor Feb 2018?

    200-300 dead Russian mercs?

    Zero....US casualties .
     
  23. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Banned

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    That's easy for someone from Australia to say....it's not your tax dollars supporting a bunch of welfare countries in Europe that can pick a fight with Russia and then turn to the US to bail them out of WW3.

    NATO is an aggressor. Anyone who believes it is solely 'defensive' ought to ask the former country of Yugoslavia.

    NATO was formed as a counter-balance to the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union dissolved and NATO got bigger and bigger, to the point that 3 former Soviet Republics are now part of NATO. WTF? Does anybody see the problem with this? Now NATO wants Ukraine and Georgia, 2 more former Soviet Republics. How about taking Russia up on its offer to join NATO? What? Then the farce comes to an end? Then the military industrial complex and the corruption that comes with it ends? No more money for the leeches in Europe and politicians in DC?

    Yep.

    Americans. Some of the dumbest people alive. Believe anything they are told by the fake news when they should be following the money instead.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Nato is an "aggressor"?

    How many gaskets you pop carski?,jeepers......one almost needs a dealership parts dept for that.

    Anyway....more like a case of those said countries WANT Nato....carski....no one's interested in the Moscow $hitshow....in case you haven't noticed.

    What has "federashka" ever offered these countries...other than death,poverty,gulag?

    Russia to join NATO?.....OK, well is Russia ready to take orders from US?....have heavily armed US bases on Russki territory....like Volgograd....Konigsberg....Moscow? ....Russkis would forever be quarreling with everybody....especially Germans.

    Americans some of the dumbest alive?

    Then...why is US the biggest economy in the world if us Americans so dumb.

    Can't beat US ingenuity like Microsoft,Apple,Amazon,General Motors, Ford,Chrysler, John Deere, Caterpillar,Casecorp, Lockheed Martin, Walmart,Costco,etc....dumbasses don't establish worldwide entities such as this.:)
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
  25. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Banned

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    See your posts, I rest my case.

    Ask 100 Americans where Ukraine is and 99 will tell you it's in the Soviet Union. Nobody cares about that shithole or the Maidan Midget.
     
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