Poll Says Biden Would Lose To Generic Republican, But ...

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Seth Bullock, Jan 26, 2022.

  1. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  2. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Polls are made to persuade people not reflect what they think. Why do we need polls?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
  3. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I have never understood why anybody would want to align with him. His **approach** (ie. incompetence, selfishness, short-sightedness, bigotry and idiocy) got him fired. It makes no sense for someone to emulate that.



    Image3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
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  4. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

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    He owns the Trump republican base and has them eating out of his little hands.
     
  5. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Correct, that's the part I don't understand for many reasons.

    1. He put a target on Pence's back with a lie.

    2. He manipulated his own supporters to do it.

    3. He ignored Pence and Pelosi's calls asking him to engage back-up.

    4. He turned his back on his own supporters that were arrested, convicted and sentenced to prison.

    5. He has fired people just for saying anything he doesn't like.

    6. Powell and Giuliani are going to lose their licenses to practice law for spreading his lies.

    7. He won't even pay Giuliani (which tells us how dishonorable he is especially since he is pulling in MILLIONS per month from donors).

    8. Lindell said that he is having pushback in his business from his alignment with Trump's conspiracy theory.

    9. If Obama submitted "letters" playing Monday morning quarterback, they would have had fits.

    10. His and their ONLY goal is to spread hatred. They serve no other function.



    None of this defensible. They twist themselves into pretzels to claim how any of this is justifiable or even reasonable when it's very clear that it is neither. I don't understand standing behind someone that won't stand for his own supporters. It's just beyond bizarre.
     
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  6. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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  7. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

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    My 2 cents! He echoes their inner thoughts and fears thereby justifying their existence and reinforcing their beliefs. It's symbiotic, they need each other, morals be damned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
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  8. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
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  9. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    That's not how polls work.
     
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  10. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    Then CNN ****ing lied to me.
     
  11. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    The poll tells you how people responded, and might tell you something about the popular vote. It doesn't tell you likelihood of winning an EC election.
     
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  12. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
  13. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Doesn't matter. We're still a long way off from 2024 and the reasons Biden's popularity is down are largely temporary and beyond his control. It's not like Trump's historically low approval, which was based on his stupidity, incompetence and rudeness.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
  14. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I posted about it last night but I'll repeat it. I no longer believe that his supporters are taking cues for him. I think he (or someone that works for him) is scanning message boards to see what people are saying and he drops those keywords sporadically to give the impression of knowing the "pulse of the people".

    This is a very common tactic used by con artists. They know how to "read" their audiences and mimic their behavior and/or words to ingratiate themselves. And, that mesmerizes them. All of us on this side of "Trump's Dysfunctional World" aren't taken in my all the "fluff" he uses as props (ie. molesting our flag, holding up a bible in front of a church, closing his eyes and pretending to pray (he's an atheist) and the sign of an excellent con artist is that his marks (targets for his scam) don't even realized it happened. To themselves, they think they are thinking critically and objectively.

    Here are a few of his gimmicks during his rallies.

    * He usually talks with his hands up which means anything outside that common movement is a play.
    * He grabs the outer edge of the podium as a signal that he is "well grounded.".
    * He moves his shoulders to point toward the part of the audience he is addressing. That engages them to listen clearly.
    * I can hear key changes in people's voices. His voice always goes a big higher when he's "schmoozing" his audience.
    * When he pauses, to drink some water, he is also paying attention to what section is alert and waiting for him to speak again.
    * He changes from 1st person to 3rd person when he is trying to give *weight* to something (ie. "Everybody is saying...").
    * He makes a big play and storms out of interviews. That's a signal to his base that the interviewer should be ignored.
    * Con artists rely on their marks' "ignorance" so the fastest way is to shut down anything that contradicts his lies.
    * He does the same thing in his press conferences and now his base is constantly screaming "fake news".
    * He is very intimidated by people he thinks are smarter than he is which is why he won't defer to experts on anything.
    * He is very tall (6.3) and studies have clearly shown that people generally favor tall people over shorter people.
    * He is very good at making anything sound reasonable. I simply can't buy that EVERY Capitol riot is stupid or crazy.
    * He is also very, very good at lying. The average person won't pick up on it. To them, it sounds totally legit.
    * He is awkward and feels intimidated (ie. pushing others out of the way to be in front, walking in front of the Queen, etc.)


    Everything he does is for the goal of getting his supporters riled up to fight for him and/or send him money (why is a billionaire always strapped for cash?). He would have been in 7th heaven if the rioters located Pence and hurt him. He didn't care that Pence was honoring his oath of office. Trump was simply angry that he would not break his duty to our country versus capitulating to Trump's verbal abuse.

    So, in a way, we can acknowledge that it's sad that so many people have been drawn into his web and have to choke down the idea that he might just get enough to stand behind him to help bring his agenda (Dear Leader for life) to fruition.
     
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  15. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Re: I think he (or someone that works for him) is scanning message boards to see what people are saying and he drops those keywords sporadically to give the impression of knowing the "pulse of the people".

    Absolutely! Trump would be clueless about America beyond his usual upper-class, northern East Coast confines if not for outside help to tell him how to speak and what issues to hammer on. The rest is his own unique form of performance art and natural charisma. He and others like him are very dangerous in politics because we have little choice but to trust politicians to have some kind of moral code and put country over self or party, even if their rhetoric isn't always in line with that. The only remedy for that is the kind of thing we've seen tried and failed, namely impeachment. Our system is fundamentally broken when we can't get a con man out of the nation's highest office who has been caught repeatedly abusing his powers.
     
  16. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Somebody had the audacity to say that he is a self-made billionaire. No, he's not. In fact, the only reason any of his businesses are still afloat is because someone else has been managing them. Every single venture he initiated has failed. He is not a good business owner or manager at all. Bullying isn't leading and that why he can't understand why we fired him. You or I would have enough common sense to know with privileges comes responsibility. He wants all the perks but none of the work. That's not the kind of person (he doesn't even qualify for that because he has no soul) we want anywhere near our nuclear codes.

    I don't recall you mentioning it but I've been having a rough go here lately but I was very embarrassed when some guy in his administration called his counterpart in China to reassure them that Trump's public nervous breakdown was not going to set off a war. I have been on the hot seat more than once for speaking out of turn to a supervisor when they are acting batsh!t crazy. In all but one instance my supervisor thanked me for reining them in. There is NOBODY within a hundred miles to tell him to take his stupid @ss somewhere and stop acting like a b@tch on camera? And, then they have the nerve to claim that Biden looks weak and Trump looked strong. When? Yeah, he does some serious weight lifting when it comes to nasty KFC chicken and Big Macs. <eye roll>
    Yes, exactly. And, the scariest part is the people drawn to that don't even notice the "slight of hand". I was stunned watching the Capitol riot. All those people showed up from around the country to do his bidding. Damn straight we need somebody sane when they have that kind of charisma.

    I was watching the Capitol riot just like everybody else and my brain was like "Um, hold up a second. This was supposed to be a "peaceful and patriotic walk to the Capitol" and it was obvious that he wanted what happened to happen because he was smart enough to be anywhere else but walking with them. And, then to know that he did that with a TOTAL LIE was frightening. I don't scare easily and I don't have a hair trigger temper (unless you mess with my kids) and I simply could NOT process what I was watching.

    How in the hell does he expect any of us to buy the lie that he was denied NG back-up because of Pelosi when he sat on his hands for HOURS refusing to engage them while officers were brutally attacked? I've told you that I've worn the badge and it made me sick to my stomach what happened to those officers. How can anybody with any fraction of humanity stand there and watch that sh!t? If that and turning his back on the now imprisoned rioters doesn't turn the tide for those that still defend him, nothing will. And, those of us not caught up in his mind games have every reason to be terrified right now. We are in a very precarious situation at the moment.

    Some posters laughed at me last year when I said he is sending us down the river for civil war on our turf. The reality is the Capitol riot was a trial run. I do not believe anybody in law enforcement and military special forces don't know what's coming. To Trump, the Capitol rioters are expendable. He wanted to know how far he could manipulate people and with hundreds of officers injured and five dead, I'd say he pushed the envelope off the table. The imprisoned rioters have a few years to come back stronger. The loved ones of those imprisoned rioters and ticked off and, the biggest show of force will be his supporters that are not okay with the election results or those convictions. This is not even close to being over. As long as he has breath in his body he will do **anything** to spread his hatred, short-sightedness, idiocy and drama to as many people as he can. Do you know how mentally unwell a person has to be for any of these actions to make sense to them? I have no doubts that if he was any other person in the world, all our armed forces, law enforcement officers and our fellow citizens would strap up and contain "the problem".
    The barrier there is easily understandable. We've never had a psychotic lunatic with the football. Yeah, there was some shadiness with former POTUSes but they weren't stark raving crazy and lifelong cheaters/criminals.

    Further I don't believe that it would be impossible to stop this madness. If none of us voted until we had some proper and intelligent candidates from which to choose, this constant bickering would have to stop. We, the People, can turn this toxicity upside down. In fact, given where things are now, I would say that's imperative. if we are to survive his declaration of war upon us.
     
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  17. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Trump hates the right people and haters gotta hate. It may seem cliche but Trump and his base hate just about anyone who is not a WASP (white, anglo-saxon protestant) and this hatred basically consumes their lives. (Mind, this isn't ALL Trumpists but enough that they determine all the actions of all the rest)

    This is why we MUST convict him of Insurrection so he will be barred from running again by the Constitution. Losing the election will NOT defeat his bid to be President again. He's already had a dry run at using the election to overthrow our Democratic Republic by force once he loses and he WILL try it again, given the chance. He won't succeed, since the Army will not go along with him but he WILL cause a lot of damage.
     
  18. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My opinion is that if the Republicans want to win in 2024, they need to find a new candidate.

    Trump would lose. He has his die-hard supporters, but every political figure does, and he doesn’t have enough of them to win the general election.

    Cruz is not especially likable and DeSantis is perceived as sort of a Floridian Trump.

    Pence defied Trump at the end, he is conservative, and is nothing like Trump. He is gentlemanly, tactful, experienced. He could be the guy who might not be the first choice of a lot of Republicans, but an acceptable choice. He might also make an acceptable enough choice for right-leaning Independents.

    Or, maybe someone different than all 4 of these people.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
  19. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I concur. This is a ticking bomb topped with a landmine. It's unreal and I've seen some *stuff* in my lifetime. It is scary as hell that people, like our neighbors and soccer moms, etc., are totally cool with dead police officers and threats to our seated-Vice President.

    Outside protecting my children or a direct assault on somebody in public, I can't even picture myself driving or flying across the country with the INTENT of confronting and/or harming an elected official or anybody for that matter. My own values would b!tch slap me somewhere along the journey. Man, this is beyond asinine.

    I mentioned this in another thread but it's relevant here too. I had a neighbor with schizophrenia and some other stuff not going right in his head. We have a community room on the premises with a full kitchen and screened porch for grilling if we'd like. One winter, he and I were going to prepare some chili and cornbread for our neighbors and walked over the community room. The door was locked. He turned to pickup a solid wood chair from the lobby and was just about to break the picture window. I'm stronger than he was so I was able to stop it. I got him to calm down and suggested that he walk around the building, unlocked the screened porch door and unlock the inside door. He literally said "I didn't think of that." WTH? I swear he didn't even pause a second. He flipped out as soon as turning that knob didn't work. Who goes from 0 to criminal activity?!?!?! I would "get" it if somebody was on fire or something crazy like that but nothing like that was happening on the other side of the door.

    I've been thinking about that incident ever since the Capitol riot. I just can't make my brain go from (1) my candidate lost to (2) property damage of a Federal building, assault and battery on police officers, attempted kidnapping, possibly attempted or completed homicide. For me, there are about 538,987 steps between those two. If that is not a case for overhauling our mental health system, I don't know what is. I honestly don't get the people that get worked up and start name-calling and bickering. How does that help?

    I'm not a political scientist. In fact, it was my least favorite subject in college. LOL From where I'm sitting, there aren't too many of them with the cojones to stand up to him except Cheney and they've cut her off at the pass. I had a twinge of hope when McConnell did his audition of moral outrage but had to send him Stage Left when he hightailed it to FL to get his monthly dose of Orange Kool-Aid.

    Also, I'm not sure where some of the Dems are on this now that Biden's popularity is plummeting. I voted for him to fire Orange Jesus. He seems like a nice enough guy (and that's great. That is definitely better than an evil lunatic with no impulse control) but I'm not completely sure Biden can get enough to back him at this point. From what we've seen on various message boards, the Orange Jesus groupies lob onto anything and everything to call for Biden's impeachment and some of them have admitted it is **solely** because the Orange Pimp Daddy was impeached twice.

    I've read some information but I don't really understand the implications. Specifically, I was trying to find out if any of his clandestine going-ons are actually crimes. I don't know that we've ever had a POTUS that skirts legal boundaries so there may be no cut-and-dry answer.

    For examples...Is it against the law to...

    * Appoint a new Postmaster to remove mailboxes, sorting machines and overtime to disenfranchise counties likely to vote "D".
    * Badger a Governor to "find X number of votes.
    * Press the DOJ to publicly state an election was corrupt.
    * Use donations for things other than the stated purpose for fundraising.
    * Appoint family members or friends, without the credentials, to the highest classified positions.
    * Most of the US is "at will" employment but can he just fire people for not being willing to lie on his behalf?

    I'm not a fan (I don't worship humans or god(s)) but Pence has proven to be a helluva man. I can only imagine what crazy verbal abuse he endured between Election Day and January 6, 2021. I know Orange Jesus lambasted him several times publicly.

    It could take years to litigate if any of the above is unchartered waters. I'm afraid we don't have years to get it sorted so the only pathway to neutering him may have to be some of the criminal charges outside his role as POTUS. This Orange Stain can't be Oxi-Cleaned. It's going to permeate our country for years or even decades.
     
  20. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Someone who won't let the elite political and corporate establishments control average Americans would win in 2024.

    ...the question is, will we nominate anyone like that?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
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  21. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    IMO, Pence is the one I least despise. Still, I'm not convinced he's capable of putting the nation ahead of his own ambitions. It took him way too long to stand up to Trump. Don't we have anyone left that isn't a self-serving propagandist?

    I do believe that if the R Party goes with another Trump style candidate, the Left will likely do what it did before and vote for anybody but _________ .
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
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  22. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    We don't have to stop voting so much as vote more for the better primary candidates and the best of those who get the nomination. The GOP fielded good people in 2015-16, but Trump won over the disaffected masses among the Republican base who felt the better candidates were out of touch and not working on their behalf. All he had to do was parrot the most radical right-wing media talking points of the time and call everyone who disagreed with him a nasty name, and he was in like General Flynn. I think that the nation has evolved since then, having gone through the awful experience of his regime and the way he tried to retain power at the expense of the nation and its democratic institutions, so that candidates will be better chosen going forward. We have all received an education in recent years. Plus, Gen Z is reaching voting age and they're not going to stand for this garbage..
     
  23. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I actually think Pence would make a good President.

    I agree with you about the Rs. Trump-style won’t win.
     
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  24. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not surprised by this. However, I doubt neither Biden nor Trump will be running in 2024. Trump is still very much disliked by independents. He in my opinion wouldn't win the independent vote. Biden is liked as a person by independents, but his priorities suck. In a way, it's Trump's very rude and uncouth personality, his childish antics like name calling and throwing temper tantrums that causes him to be disliked by swing voters. Biden on the other had, it's more policy and issue orientated. Particually rising prices.

    This far out, none of these polls mean anything. The election isn't today, but it's interesting to me that the difference is personality vs. issues or should I say Biden have all the wrong priorities. At least that's how independents look at this.
     
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  25. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I think that Joe Biden will win in 2024 and go on to be one of the Great Presidents. He's everything Trump or any Trumper isn't. He's probably the most experienced politician in the US today, a living refutation of the apparent Republican tenet that the best person for jobs that are difficult and require great diplomacy and finesse are people who have no experience or training in them and who have shown no apparent talent for anything but lying, abysmal stupidity, truly vicious vindictiveness. and being a toxic ******* who hates everyone and is cordially hated by everyone but an equally disagreeable cadre of sycophantic toadies in return

    If I have to nominate a (shudder) Republican, may I nominate MD's own Governor Larry Hogan. He is a very popular Republican in a very Democratic State and has remained staunchly sane even as his Party has gone crazy around him. His only real fault is that he stubbornly remains a Republican and nobody's perfect.
     

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