‘My future is taken away from me’: Russians flee to escape consequences of Moscow’s war

Because Russki isn't creative really.....

 

Possibly. At least it is WAY farther east now. Lots more free nations than before.

 

Let us know how life from the inside is when you move to Russia and get to enjoy the gulags from the inside.

Oh, wait, Russians no longer have the freedom to post on free and open forums like these anymore, communication with you could prove to be, ähm, difficult.

 

You do realize that virtually everything that Putin said in this "speech" is a lie, right?

 

Oh, please tell us all how your life is so much more difficult than those Ukrainians who are getting slaughtered by Russian armaments.

Maybe you can drink a nice starbucks coffee and play cool games on your smartphone while you tell us how those mean Democrats have made your life soooo rough.

Oh, wait, you are here and can write (most) anything you want. Must be really rough for you.

I will pray for you.

 

I kind of do. These Russians who flee... who are those people?

A guy like Abramovich, the owner of Chelsea and good buddy of Putin, sanctioned by the UK, is a Jew and so can take his business to Israel.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/14/as-ukraine-war-rages-israel-grapples-with-fate-of-oligarchs

And others seem to have found their refuge in Dubai.
https://therealdeal.com/2022/03/13/dubai-welcomes-russian-oligarchs-as-world-turns-its-back/


Let's not kid ourselves with who does this fleeing.

 

No need to pray for me. But you need to pray hard for all those people who live in the inner cities like Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Oakland, even Portland etc....Crime. poverty, shootings etc...

 

i do, until the West cuts this forum from reaching Russia, like it did to many already now.

 

say, the uks bombing there own civillians being not a lie, as well as the rest is not.

the west is egging on the ukraine to show off and they do try, like they can but not much.

 

The 'West" is not doing this. Putin is doing this to his own people. I will not let false propaganda slip by here.

Also, you need to read PF rules on quoting peoples' texts when you respond to them.

 

it does, google the netflix pull out, among many others.

 

I am not speaking for Stat but my understanding of his comment is that Putin's actions forced the U.S. and other countries to levy sanctions against Russia. Netflix, McDonald's, Starbucks, etc. are not *punishing* Russian civilians. Putin's actions are punishing his civilians.

 

Not a persuasive line of reasoning:
1- the more proximate cause of the "punishment" of Russian civilians are sanctions, regardless of what led to the sanctions being imposed
2- the real purpose of such sanctions is to hurt civilians to undercut support for the political leadership.

 

My goal wasn't to persuade anybody but merely to point out that implying that the West is a big ol' meanie looking to hurt Russian civilians is demonstrably false and legally unfounded.

Zelensky was able to lead his constituents to stand up for what they believe in and pushback against Russia's invasion. Right, wrong or indifferent, they clearly are people that have their President's back because they know he has theirs.

It's up to Russians to either stand behind Putin's choices (and all that means) or figure out a Plan B.

 

The highlighted part I disagree for the reason I already stated. To be sure, its not wanting to hurt Russians out of animus or spite or being "meanie". But hurting them is the purpose of the sanctions all the same.

 

You mean that you couldn't tell, from the first or second interview, that many of the people were just trying to avoid getting in trouble? One of the few young respondents, straight out said that he didn't want to answer, out of fear, and that Russia was a dangerous place to live. Many of these people were just giving the politically correct answers-- how do they know that this isn't really an under cover, secret police sting operation?

Also, the most support for Putin was coming from the oldest people, who are not typically the ones who start a revolt.

For comparison, had you gone around Iran, in 2000, after moderates had won a majority, people would have told you that they support the moderate regime. But after hardliners regained control in 2004 - 05, everyone transformed, at least outwardly, to Conservatives, and those championing Moderate philosophies, would have been much harder to come by, almost over night.. When people are afraid or untrusting of their governments, you have to take results of public samplings, like this, with a lot of salt. Some are certainly brainwashed, but others are just being cautious.

 

And how many other, nascent sprees of world conquest, have you successfully predicted?

I joke of course, kind of. That is, you are offering your "guarantee," but with nothing behind it: you are not going into a full argument of why this will happen. Your predictions seem to be based, just on your gut.

 

I am Iranian. I don't consider myself "brain washed". (In fact, I lived in America until 2005 and never even traveled to Iran from the time of the revolution to going there in 2005 and deciding to stay until recently). I used to be a huge supporter of Khatami and the reformist movement. Leaving aside the fact that many of them ended up being very corrupt with dubious links to treacherous and corrupt groupings ultimately tied to western multi-national companies (and western governments), the base of support for reformists in Iran was mainly undercut by the rise of neocons in the US and the policies they advocated against Iran under Bush. The same way the reformists, who regained some of their luster during the Obama years in America with the election of Rouhani in Iran, lost all of it and then some with the rise of Trump and his maximum pressure campaign. And Biden's election won't change that: "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me and you; fool me three time, shame on me alone."

 

Err.... it may have escaped your notice but China already controls Hong Kong. For the rest?

Russia has an economy one 20th the size of the combined economic power of the EU and America and half of its foreign exchange reserves have been seized by the West. It has to import a range of Western technology to produce vital components for its weapons industry. Its army is composed largely of unwilling 12 month conscripts and its access to the sea is entire subject to the whim of NATO. And NATO is rearming.

Let. Putin.Try.

 

just like you west folks do whenever confronted with loaded issues.

 

Likely. But we're building a lot of that curtain ourselves, shutting the Russian people off from the global society as we are to punish them for what their government is doing.

 

What worries me is, how will the Donetsk and Lugansk people enjoy life after they have won the war? They will be hated like the pest by the rest of the Ukrainians and the West. Russia will never be able to relax its protection of them and their children.

Wouldn't it have been better they had tried to get along and fit in with the rest of Ukraine?
These thoughts bring me to the revelation that it has not been a war for the freedom of the Donetsk people, but rather to keep NATO and the West out of Ukraine for Russia's sake, for Crimea's sake.
With this war there is no longer any doubt of the real intentions of the West. No love is lost between Washington and Moscow.
If we had Trump back as president there might be a chance of him and Putin reassuring each other and calming the situation, because I don't think Trump is a warring president. He seemed to get along o.k. with Putin, even with the guy in North Korea.

It may be a FIRST in history, but the present situation really calls for a drastic action: Massive people protest against a war between the big powers!

Like the Canadian truckers! That event was quite an eye opener to me. It showed how much power the government has over its citizens! We little working people mean nothing to the elite.
So much for protesting against the war - the military and FEMA would only throw us into prison. Its best to pray and help the suffering people, if possible.

 

There are many reasons to be highly dubious of your prediction. First off, assuming that Russia finally gains tentative control over Ukraine, they would need keep a lot of troops there, to hold onto it. Combined with the weight of sanctions dragging on its economy, as well, it is difficult to imagine Putin further extending his army-- and for what? Moldova? Armenia? Georgia? Azerbaijan? By the time Putin would be ready to move, anew, Finland & Sweden will already be at least mid process, in becoming NATO members. And all the Balkan & Central European nations that you listed, neither Russia nor Ukraine shares a border with; Putin could only reach them, by moving through a NATO country.

As for China, the first question one must wonder, other than for Taiwan, is why? They have been methodically following long-term plans that seem, economically, to have been working out quite well for the Chinese. What makes it worth the extreme gamble, of trying to bring back Imperialism? The Chinese have been patient, and militarily fairly cautious. It is hard to believe that watching the work of their potential ally, Russia, would prove to be at all emboldening to Xi. I think, for the near term future, it is only Taiwan, that Xi has his eye on, and it is not readily apparent how Russia can much help with that, other than by dividing and diluting the aid potential of NATO & other countries, through coordinated, simultaneous actions.

But even Taiwan is a question mark. I just grabbed a list from Wikipedia, of China's ships, and they seem a bit short, for the overwhelming invasion that they would want. Only 36 landing ships, and 36 more tank landing ships; by comparison, the U.S. employed 1000 tank landing ships, in WW 2. And the Chinese Fleet boasts only 2 aircraft carriers.

[Snip]
Active shipsEdit
There are approximately 500 vessels listed here that constitute the active fleet. Not included here are the various auxiliary ships that together number approximately 230.

• Aircraft carriers - 2
• Landing helicopter docks - 2
• Amphibious transport docks - 8
• Landing ship tanks - 36
• Landing ship medium - 36
• Ballistic missile submarines - 8
• Nuclear attack submarines - 12
• Attack submarines (SSK) - 58
• Destroyers - 41
• Frigates - 43
• Corvettes - 72
• Missile boats - 107
• Submarine chasers - 26
• Gunboats - 17
• Mine countermeasures vessels - 36
• Replenishment oilers - 16
• Auxiliaries (various) - 233*

* Figure includes both coastal and ocean-going auxiliaries, from tugboats to hospital ships. Not counted towards total number of active ships

[end]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_People's_Liberation_Army_Navy


I also just recently learned of Taiwan's defense strategy, which involves not letting the ships ever reach land. They intend to do this with their already robust missile- based defense, which they are actively bolstering. I am guessing that China may wish to distribute ships throughout surrounding waters, to make their invasion less self- announcing, than launching an armada, near Taiwan. But as long as their is sufficient satellite surveillance of the Chinese Fleet, probably with U.S. assistance, this still looks like a drawn out game of cat and mouse, ahead of us. The bold strike that would swing the advantage toward China, in a more pronounced way, would be a strike at our or Taiwan's satellites, to stop tracking of their ships. I'm not sure if Xi is feeling bold enough, to do that to the U.S. He may be, or he may not.

 

As a reaction to Putin's brutal, criminal, illegal, murderous invasion of a foreign, Independent land.

Learn the correct timeline of events.

Very bad. Ocheyn plocha.