Week: USA ignored Putin's concerns about NATO and provoked war in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by vis, May 11, 2022.

  1. WhoDatPhan78

    WhoDatPhan78 Banned

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    NATO was not going to accept Ukraine while Russia was occupying the east and Crimea. It's just nonsense made up by Russia and parroted by their stooges to justify Putin trying to take more of Ukraine.
     
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  2. Glücksritter

    Glücksritter Well-Known Member

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    Before Russians are too worried about old grudges in between Japan and the US, they should maybe give back the Kuril islands to Japan in order not to create new grudges.
     
  3. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Its a stupid article.
     
  4. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a lot of Nazis in Latvia. If you do not trust me, maybe Israel mass media is more convincing for you? https://www.timesofisrael.com/latvians-march-to-honor-troops-who-fought-alongside-nazis/
     
  5. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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  6. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  7. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Old news from years back....and you're just deflecting vis....the Dwarfstans narrative is convincing as herpes.....there's many cases of this around the world....Kremlin pimp uses it as a convenient sounding board for anyone who disagrees....and you're just parroting.
     
  8. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea about what is going on in Latvia. This is two years back declaration of European Parliament about Nazis marching along the streets in Riga: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2020-000862_EN.html
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
  9. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah...OK. Like I said earlier....many cases such as this in Europe....Russia has its skinheads and Nazi supporters.....

    Just look at PFC Wagner mercs....
     
  10. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    The military cult of death, powered by the bodies and minds of young, ignorant males, continues to poison life.
    When mothers raise sons to be men instead of automatons, we might progress. Both genders are in this together.
     
  11. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Zelensky offered to make Ukraine neutral if Pootin pulls back to Russian positions before the invasion. No reaction from Russia. So, your theory is wrong - it’s a war of conquest, or theft of territory.
     
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  12. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    No, there was no such an offer from Zelensky before the war. It came only after the invasion started.
     
  13. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t surprise me that Russian sympathizers are coming from Germany. A country who’s alliance has never truly been tested. Seriously… making an argument that the west caused the Ukraine war when Russia attacked Ukraine to take Crimea 5 years ago… what kind of propaganda BS is this? Only in Germany… only in Germany…
     
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  14. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    The opinion comes from the UK newspaper. This is first. The second, the opinion relates to the current war in Ukraine, not to what has happened 5 years ago. Third, indeed Germany does not have too much fun to have US based on its territories.
     
  15. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    The article you posted is a clear propaganda piece laying blame where there is none. They spoke about Crimea in the article. As if it was a reasoning for the war. The fact the west won’t acknowledge it as Russia is labeled as a reason for the war when Russia literally had to attack Ukraine to even claim it theirs. This war has been going on for some time. Crimea isn’t Russia and that upsets them they can go to he**.

    If you don’t like our troops in Germany vote to end their stay. I’m sure you would rather hangout with Russians anyway. Do you miss the wall or something?
     
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  16. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    I see, propaganda from the UK based newspaper. Whatever is not according to your views is propaganda. Typical american approach. Crimea is only mentioned in the paper. It has nothing to do with the provocation from the US. You can jump out of your pants crying that Crimea is not in Russia. De facto it is in Russia.
     
  17. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    As of now it is Russian but it was Ukrainian prior to their attacks so we should not recognize as their land. Why are you peddling this garbage? Are you a Russian supporter?
     
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  18. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    I have to disappoint you. Crimea was initially in Russia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_transfer_of_Crimea
    I do not support Russia in its current invasion in Ukraine, but I do comprehend the reasons of the war. And yes, I do support unification of Crimea with Russia as historically Russia has all rights for Crimea. Crimea being in Russia does not need anyones recognition.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
  19. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Mongolia has historic rights on entire Russia. Have you considered that option? I’ve heard that China has historic rights for Russian Siberia - I don’t see Russians rushing to restore this historic injustice. How about Chechens? Oh, and did you forget about Tatarstan - an entity within Russia that up to recently had its own version of Russian passport and license plates?
    If you want to correct historic injustices, why not do them all? Is Russia ready to move its capital to Ulaanbaatar?

    If you want their residents to stop suffering from sanctions, then you’ll want international recognition. Russia has gone so far now that the only way it can shake all those sanctions off is to return all Ukrainian territory, including Crimea. Russia is viewed as a criminal state now that must right all wrongs it did to Ukraine to restore its image for investments to come back.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
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  20. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    Your example with Mongolia is not quite correct. First, we are talking about the modern history, not what happened in 16th century. Second, in those realities back to Ermak times, Siberia legally became a part of Russia. Crimea was illegaly transferred to Ukraine, based on the decision of few people.
    I did not notice that people in Crimea were suffering because of sanctions during my visit year back in 2014.
    I do not think that Crimea will go back to Ukraine.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
  21. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    And who gets to draw the line in history to determine the end point? Why are you stopping at 70 years? Why not 700 years?
     
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  22. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    This is easy, too much redrawing for 700 years. Russia had a right to demand Crimea back and it used its right. I do not think it would happen if Ukraine was a friendly country at that time.
     
  23. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Who determines which countries have such rights?
     
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  24. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Wikipedia… really? Whatever I’ll run with it. But seriously they can be edited to read whatever anyone wants it to read. That is a horrible source if you really want to debate.

    anyway. That wiki article (if it’s even true) says the Russians gave it to Ukraine, thus making it Ukrainian property. Not the Russians. The Russians had to invade (make war that you somehow are trying to discredit) to regain it. That is not a legal annexation of Crimea. Crimea is still Ukrainian and your point means absolutely nothing
     
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  25. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Why did they have right to demand it back? You are a Russian sympathizer aren’t you. I bet you’re not German at all. Probably Russian spreading your misinformation.

    does Russia have a right to demand the USSR back as well? What is wrong with you
     
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