Looking at the REASON for punishment for killing fetus if mother wanted it

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by kazenatsu, May 12, 2022.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I don't want to get too off topic here.

    If what is being killed is insignificant, then you agree it should not be a big matter, whether that was in an abortion or whether it was done without the woman's consent.

    So this isn't really a part of the argument.

    Gestational development doesn't really apply more when the woman gets an abortion than when someone else caused its death. The gestational development argument would still be equal in all cases, whatever the particular age of the fetus happened to be.

    But if you absolutely need a specific point to contemplate, for the sake of argument, then we can discuss 12-14 weeks.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    ""Looking at the REASON for punishment for killing fetus if mother wanted it""

    It's because her CHOICE was denied her by a CRIMINAL(a person who denies women their right to choice)


    Hey, ya missed posts 17 and 18 :)
     
  3. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The other part of the argument that is never mentioned, when discussing the "health of the woman", is the large increase in suicide rates for those women who have had abortions.
     
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe you would like to tell us what the woman having a miscarriage causes that birth does not?

    Is there some way a woman's body is negativity impacted more during a miscarriage?

    Once again, this is another example of how your own arguments seem to conflict with other arguments you use in different situations.

    (Oh, by the way, I really suggest you follow the context of the total conversational dialogue before responding to this post, my original text you responded to, otherwise I don't think you will know what we are talking about)
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  5. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    So we should stop women from having abortions because a tiny number of them commit suicide after their choice? Is that what you are saying?
     
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  6. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh it's not small problem, and abortion is tied to other mental health issues.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/abortion-tied-to-sharp-decline-in-womens-mental-health/

    The "health of the mother" is a tiny number of women who die during childbirth, and that's a common argument you hear from the other side.
     
  7. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    ARE you saying that beating a woman is OK if it doesn't leave permanent damage ?
    UNANSWERED ;)

    FoxHastings said:
    ARE you saying that beating a woman is OK if it doesn't leave permanent damage ?
    UNANSWERED ;)


    If you didn't cherry pick so much you'd know what were talking about..
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
  8. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    So if, according to you , women die during pregnancy or childbirth it's OK because the numbers are small so those women are nothing to you.

    The FACT that ALL women are harmed by pregnancy just doesn't matter. ?
    Most women feel relief after geting an abortion.

    But then FLIP FLOP if there's a bad effect from abortion suddenly YOU are all "concerned" about women...LOLOLOL....


    Then there is the Big Point that righties hate that women still have the right to decide for themselves what to do with their lives..

    Form your link :
    ""Previous research hasn't found a definitive link between an abortion and a woman's mental health.

    In 2008, the American Psychiatric Association charged a task force to review scientific evidence on the link between abortion and mental health. They acknowledged women may experience sadness, grief, depression, and anxiety following an abortion, but could not find evidence abortions - and not other factors - caused these effects.""
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well it is one example of how exploitative abortion can be. (women feeling pushed into it even though they don't really want to do it) But that would be a discussion for another thread.
     
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You do realize that more women die each year in car accidents than from pregnancies (ALL pregnancies)?
    But you seem to be trying to change the topic.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    or the mental issues of these that do have babies, Andrea Yates comes to mind

    not to mention those that lost life or limbs giving birth

    now imagine women are forced to have babies, and it's not their choice anymore
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    So if, according to you , women die during pregnancy or childbirth it's OK because the numbers are small so those women are nothing to you.
    UNANSWERED AS USUAL

    LOL YOU just brought up "car accidents" TO CHANGE THE TOPIC..as if they had anything to do with abortion which they don't...
     
  13. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Well it is one example of how exploitative pregnancy can be. (women feeling pushed into it even though they don't really want to do it)
     
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Stay on topic, FoxHastings. Don't try to change the topic just because you can't put up an argument.

    Maybe you need to re-read the argument in the opening post, if you've forgotten.

    Maybe the problem is I addressed and rebutted all the possible arguments you usually like to make, so you have no way of successfully attacking the argument in the opening post, other than to try to change the topic to another completely different abortion topic?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
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  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I guarantee you, for 99% of women who are getting abortions, it has virtually nothing to do with women's health reasons.

    Anyway, once again, you seem to be off topic.

    Why don't you seem to want to discuss the argument in the opening post?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
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  16. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As always, the issue is more complicated that leftists care to process.

    The maternal fatality rate for obese women is over 34 per 100k. Non-obese women are 9 per 100k.

    Illicit drugs, alcohol and suicide attribute to a considerable number of maternal deaths as well.

    This death rate includes deaths associated with pregnancy before, during and after birth.

    Nobody is forcing anyone to get pregnant.

    Pregnancy is a consequence, not a decision. You know, like getting drunk. You might not consent to getting drunk, but you definitely consented to drinking. "Muh rape babies" aside, of course.

    When 450k children are aborted each year because people can't bother using birth control, I'd say yes, they consented to being pregnant. Another 400k of aborted babies had people who sometimes used birth control. This is also consent to pregnancy.

    That's 850k dead kids every year thanks to people having sex without birth control with people they don't even know.

    Keep arguing rape, incest and giving specific names of specific people though, because staying in the 1% of why abortion happens is all you have.
     
  17. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you're saying women are weak and dependent.
     
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    there is no reason to punish women for having abortions, that is the point
     
  19. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why not. We already punish them when they directly or indirectly harm their children now.
     
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    which is why it should be the women's choice, not the government's choice
     
  21. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But it was the woman's choice to get pregnant for 94% of abortions.

    Does a woman get to choose murder a year later?

    Does the father get to choose using his body to work to pay or go to jail?

    Once you've decided to create a child you should be required to care for it.
     
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    nope, but the right will if they are poor

    "Bush Criticized for End-of-Life Laws"

    https://web.archive.org/web/20051219170102/http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151448,00.html

    "But on March 15, a Texas law signed by then-Gov. George W. Bush (search) in 1999 allowed the hospital to go ahead and take Sun off the respirator in defiance of Wanda Hudson's wishes."
     
  23. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    Well it is one example of how exploitative pregnancy can be. (women feeling pushed into it even though they don't really want to do it)

    No, DUH, I said :

    ""Well it is one example of how exploitative pregnancy can be. (women feeling pushed into it even though they don't really want to do it)""


    :) And, of course ,an Anti-choice righty HAS to "misinterpret " that in a pathetic desperate attempt to have anything to say at all :)
     
  24. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your example is an incurable form of dwarfism that resulted in lungs that would never work?

    You wanted to leave a baby with a lung condition so bad it couldn't survive without a respirator hooked up for how long exactly?
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so babies like that can be aborted after birth per Republicans, if they are poor?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2022

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