Is there a right to abortion, and if so, where does the right come from?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Talon, May 6, 2022.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    My explanation was historical and factual. The wording of the Constitution followed the New Jersey model, where women had the right to vote by the way, in which it used the generic men to mean yes everyone. Some might say it has been sexist throughout the this history and the English language but while "she" and "woman" have always bee specific to the female of the human species, "man" and "men" has also been used in the generic NOT specific to the male of the human species.

    But if you want to claim that women do not have equal right to life I am more than happy to a let you claim that ground.
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And when asked "what is YOUR personal opinion about the act of abortion, not choice or some other esoteric nonsensical concept", we get crickets and declarations that their OPINIONS are irrelevent in a forum of opinions. The simple question "if you are not pro-abortion, against the act of the abortion itself, why?" Gets dodged and diverted and the outright refusal to give a clear and concise answer. I can tell you clearly and concisely why I am ANTI-abortion. My personal beliefs on the act of THE abortion itself. But the pro-abortion being widely available and unrestricted side will refuse to state what THEY believe about abortion while openingly supporting the act itself. How can one discuss the issue at all if you cannot clearly and concisely express your opinion on it?
     
  3. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I gave you mine.
     
  4. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    So they interpreted the way they wanted.
    Go it. Not Explicit and UnAmbiguous. For federally, women had to fight for a right to vote.

    Thanks for proving nothing of rights are explicit or unambiguous.
    There is no such thing as an Absolute or Inherent right. All rights have to be granted and enforced by some mechanism.

    Yell fire in a crowded theater and see how well your right to freedom of speech holds up in court if someone gets injured or killed because you yelled.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  5. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully, you would do better than you have with economics and history. :)

    So, you would deny a woman an abortion necessary to save her life? If not, you're "pro-abortion," too.
    Abortion is not available "for any reason." Why make stuff up?
    No such thing.
    MYOB.
    MYOB.

    You have your work cut out for you if you want to convince Americans...

    [​IMG][/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  6. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Only if you're against individual freedoms. Which it seems you are.

    You seem to think gov't should tell women how they must endure a pregnancy. Instead of the individual woman and her doctor.

    Freedom for people to make their own choice, is not an endorsement of said choice. Just the right to express said choice.

    Like freedom of speech.
    I may not like what you say, but I did defend this country for your right to say it.

    And being pro legalized abortion is NOT for abortion. Just the freedom of the individual to choose.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
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  7. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    We're a nation of laws. The Constitution, Article VI, paragraph Two:

    "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."​
     
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  8. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Nothing you post is factual.
    You can't have a preamble that is explicit and unambiguous and still claim a word or words within it are generic. It is not logical to normal thinking people.
     
  9. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Absurd.
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Lack of rebuttal noted.
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Laws that protect our basic rights like the self evident right to life. The Constitution doesn't establish your right to life, that was establish in the DoI, it protects it.
     
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh that refutes what I posted and addresses the science. Did you go and look up what I suggested?

    No, if the woman is going to die so would the baby. Pro-abortion is supporting freely available indiscriminate abortion when the mother's life is NOT threatened it is mearly because the mother does not want the child to live. Do you support that?

    Yes it is a the Dem's bill would have codified it. Do you support that?
    No such thing.

    Lack of rebuttal noted. Protecting innocent human life is everyone's business.

    Not when you ask do you support restrictions on abortion or abortion on demand up until birth.
     
  13. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    You are free to yell fire, you are not free from the consequences of doing so.
     
  14. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    The DOI protects nothing.
     
  15. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    This situation...

    18D8208D-FC68-4916-8210-BA6101E82DA3.png

    E397F1F4-75D0-4568-9FB1-04B4A7D1A508.jpeg

    ... is not limited to Washington bureaucrats, nor is limited to Democrats or Republicans.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  16. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The woman's life is always threatened to some degree. My wife came very close to bleeding to death after an uneventful pregnancy.

    As I said, you have an uphill battle with the American people...

    [​IMG]
     
  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Amendment XIV, Section 1:

    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."​

    If you want to turn the fetus into a person, amend the Constitution.
     
  18. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I said exactly this in my head before I scrolled down and saw this post.
     
  19. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    There isn't a right to abortion.
    Anymore than there is a right to a vascectomy.
    There is a right to personal control, autonomy, over one's own body. You cannot be forced to go to a certain dentist, eat certain foods, go to certain schools or live in certain places.
    Abortion is one of the areas this right covers.
    It is a right to choice. It is illegal to remove that right from almost every other choice a person makes OTHER than abortion, one of the most personal, complicated, physical and emotional decision a person can make.
    IMO it is criminal that a state legislature, most probably made up of a majority of men, legally rapes a woman of her rights.
    It is indicative of the medieval male attitude of faiths like Islam and other orthodoxies. The idea that a law based on some belief in a fairytale two thousand years old can deny a woman her right to make decisions about how she wants to live is not only contrary to a free liberal society, it is appalling.
    No state or national legislature should have the interest in or the right to control any such personal issues of any individual.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  20. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    That's changing the goal post. Again one can be for something being legal, while personally against the thing itself. So one can be anti-abortion personally, while being pro legalized abortion. But the term anti-abortion is more typically associated with the political position, which you relabel in your post as anti-legalized abortion, than the personal position.
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Your hyperbole is ridiculous as is your hate filled misandry. When will the Left learn to make their points without violence slander and hate?

    COME SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE LEFTISM: Pro-Abortion Extremists Threaten To Burn Down, Storm Supreme Court, Murder Justices, Government Memo Reveals.

    [​IMG]

    "Pro-abortion extremists are threatening to burn down the Supreme Court building and murder justices and the clerks, prompting law enforcement to ready itself for political violence should Roe v. Wade be overturned."

    If the dirtbags at the FBI weren't otherwise occupied harassing school board parents, they might being doing something effective about this.

    More of the Great Replacement Crap Theory from the Left that instigates violence, hate and mass murder:

    "the memo attempts to link the pro-life movement to white supremacy, highlighting pro-life violence in the past. But the memo emphasizes that the extremist acts might come from pro-abortion individuals."

    DHS are constitutionalist hating liars and spin artists operating as the armed enforcement thugs of the political Left.

    Watch them allow their violence and destruction, once again, to get completely out of control.

    Board up the window fronts. Biden and the Dems support the coming violence.

    The way the Left attacks the support structures of our society has gone way past far enough.

    Dobbs is a very reasonable PRO-CHOICE standard that is more permissive, with unrestricted abortion for 15 weeks, than most of Europe and all of France.

    These vile violent abortion absolutists are planning on enveloping this nation in yet another wave of national violence and they have the tacit support from the President, to the Vice President, Dems in Congress, Blue City Councils and Soros Prosecutors.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    hence my caveat, 'if someone gets hurt or killed'.
    If the theater is empty or only a couple of people, it's likely a non issue.

    That's why all other so called inherent rights have restrictions. There's likely very few, if any, rights that don't have some restrictions.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  23. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Lack of understanding words? I rebutted your claim the preamble is explicit and unambiguous. For you yourself, have said at least 1 word in there is generic, "men".
    If the preamble is explicit, then it applies to ONLY "men".

    ...
    explicit
    clearly expressed; leaving nothing implied; unequivocal: explicit instructions; outspoken, precise
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  24. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is exactly what I was talking about when I referred to people who don't want to be held [morally and intellectually] responsible and accountable for their own position.

    Supporting another person's freedom to obtain an abortion still puts you in a position of supporting abortion. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't get one yourself, and about half of us can't because we're men.

    As I said earlier, the people hiding behind their "pro-Life" euphemism are no better or different. They're anti-abortion, not pro-life, because they're perfectly willing to negate the lives of the mothers.
     
  25. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn't.
     

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